Hello Milind and welcome to the forum. Glad to see that the MS Fox Team is generating a little interest inside MS. There's nothing better than VFP when it comes to munging data. Just as I would give anything to have the SQL implementation of SQL Server in VFP, I would give anything to have the cursor engine and some of the DML/syntax of VFP in MS's other products. I've been through DAO, RDO, ADO and most recently ADO.NET, but when you've worked with VFP the deficiencies with ADO.NET are still quite apparent. A standing ovation from over here for anything Fox-worthy that gets incorporated. I really appreciate the effort and it's nice to see the Fox get an honorable mention from time to time when MS is talking "data".

Any ideas floating around MS regarding Sedna and integration with .NET from a data standpoint? I was hoping for some tight databinding features that would make a .NET UI with VFP for the middle-tier and data-tier (vfp or sql server for the database) really attractive to VFP developers. Ken has proposed passing XML back and forth, but I was hoping there might be some other ideas as Sedna begins to take shape. Don't get me wrong, XML is great... but in this scenario it would come with way more overhead than I'd like which means I probably wouldn't do it except when absolutely necessary. I guess I just don't see how .NET integration can be the buzz surrounding Sedna if you don't incorporate databinding and other datacentric features that would make it (integration with .NET) really attractive to the VFP Community.

It doesn't have to always be like pulling teeth.<g> As a VFP developer I live, breath, and eat data... even the UI, while it may be artistic at times, is simply a way for me to present data. So it would seem to me (just my opnion), once all the compatibility issues have been thought of for Sedna moving VFP forward into Longhorn, that there should be some kind of brainstorming session where just 3 words are written on the white board "Think Data Presentation!" - if you build it, they will come.

What I mean by this is, VFP developers are not going to flock to use .NET to manipulate data, VFP is already much better at this (though if you wanted to give us a better implementation of the SQL Standard I wouldn't mind). VFP already has OOP (not all of it, but certainly enough to get the job done), so OOPs not as big a selling point as it might have been with the VB developers. We already have a native report engine (which opened up a world of possibilities with VFP9) or we can use Crystal Reports just fine from VFP. So what is it that would make Sedna, and .NET for that matter really attractive? Well, VFP has an antiquated look and feel - even with the little bit of XP Theme support we've been given. It's the blaring deficincy that sticks out like a sore thumb. As VFP developers, we do all kinds of things to work around this, images, skins, GDI+, FLLs, DLLs, OCXs... and a good portion of these are either code we've painstakingly written ourselves or purchased as Third-Party products. On average we probably spend more money on third-party products to make our applications look good than we did on VFP. That's not a huge chunk of change to MS given the size of the VFP Community, but it's a chunk of change none-the-less and VS is a better value - but we don't have a really practical way to utilize VS from VFP right now. So, even if we know .NET, we are either working in one or the other for the most part... and those that don't know .NET usually take if for a spin and then decide it can't replace VFP and/or it's too complex and has brought their production to a screeching halt (have you ever seen the difference in amount of code to do something ADO/ADO.NET style and VFP style? Couple that with not being able to do things we take for granted in VFP and you have a big NO SALE no matter how much you try to pitch it).

However, I get really excited when I think of being able to incorporate/integrate with WinForms and Avalon and having access to some of the cool controls and look and feel that comes stock with VS (heck I even want those icons/bmps that will be in with VS 2005), but you've got to give me a way to bind it to VFP that's intuitive and fast and doesn't take all the machinations that current COM-Interop currently imposes. If you want to really blow socks off, give us functionality similar to the ElementHost for Avalon in VFP or a WindowsFormHost that will handle a VFP Form in Avalon. Or at the very least, throw Ken a twelve-pack of Mountain Dew and his Ultimate Ears and have him work up a converter for VFP SCXs to XAML so we can build our base in VFP and then trick it out afterwards.

And it's not just VS that could be made more attractive, what about MS Office (do you have any idea how many of us bought a third-party product so we could export our customers reports to Word, Excel, and PDFs? I know you're not about to give us PDFs, but what about a Metro formatted report?) And, how about allowing us to leverage that shnazzy new XML office format via the XMLAdapter? Some office-style toolbars and menus too while you're in there (here again VS would be pretty handy to use from VFP).

SQL Server too... how hard would it be to jam out a little portion of Sedna that allows us to use VFP commands/syntax. Heck, there are already VFP Developers that are cluging together (no slight intended, their work is greatly appreciated) some SPROCS for SQL Server that mimics VFP. Build off of that idea... you gotta have some TSQL gurus in MS that could replicate the whole fricking VFP language as it pertains to data manipulation in little to no time... blackbox the whole thing... call it part of the Sedna project and slap a price tag and a Fox on it. I'll buy one as soon as you're done.

Also, on a forum related note there's a category in this forum entitled "Sedna" and it would be nice to see a little more MS involvement there. I mean just a simple "Good idea, we'll look into it" or "Here's a quick alternative to that idea we're looking into" post would go a mile there... as it is now, either Ken fields the posted idea/question or it just sits or perhaps a little banter ensues hoping that MS might chime in and then the idea train just comes to a screeching halt. I've seen a few really good ideas in there that didn't get the play I felt they deserved.

Lastly, I want you to know that I realize it's pretty early in this Sedna game and that many of the areas I touched on aren't even remotely in your job description, but I thought since you were brave enough to poke your head in here you wouldn't mind if I took my shot. <g>


>Hi folks,
>
>I have recently joined Universal Thread... actually recently started working with the Fox team. I just wanted to introduce myself here.
>
>I am a Program Manager with the Visual Studio Data team. I am responsible for the developer experience with SQLCLR and TSQL projects, the VS Query Designer, and data tools extensibility. I have been with Microsoft, in the data tools team, for a little over four years. Before joining Microsoft I spent several years building applications in areas of networking, security and enterprise administration.
>
>I am very exited to be working with the FoxPro team. VFP 9 was a great release and I look forward to working on Sedna and enable richer integration with .net.
>
>Feel free to drop me a line.
>
>Thanks and cheers!