>Hi Alan,
>
>>>>>If you know the person for example? Maybe I've should have said, the "Black guy" on the corner. Anyways the specification of'"Turk" or "Black guy" or "Chinese", or "Old man" or "Red guy" is just to identify who we are talking about, not an act of discrimination. I do remember an incident on the train station in Hoorn (it was in the papers) where one of the NS staff was trying to catch a black guy who did not pay for the train trip. He said "Get over here, you black rat". I wondered why this is discrimination? He was not saying that every black person was a rat, rather that this individual was both black and a rat.
>>>
>>>>Yes, that is a clear example of discrimination. It was clear to me within a second. As a judge, I'd not hesitate.
>>>
>>>Hmmm, I'm confused? Why is the above discrimination? I don't get it. It is making remarks to an individual not a certain groups with same characteristics.
>
>>I'm with Peter on this one. The implication is that Blacks are rats. "You rat" would not be discrimination, but "You black rat" is. Same as if he said, "You Jewish rat" or "You Arab rat".
>
>I totally disagree, What if the person calling the other was black himself ?? Is that discrimination ? If not, why is is a statement depinding on who makes it discrimination or not ??

Of course it makes a difference who says the words. On the other hand, who says only whites can be racist? I don't know how prevalent it is today, but there certainly was a time when even blacks had a pecking order depending on how dark a person's skin was. The darker the skin, the lower the person on the racial hierarchy.

But to answer your question, maybe discrimination is the wrong word. Racist or derogatory may be a better choice. Refusing to hire a black; that's discrimination. Hating or abasing a black because of skin colour; that's racism. The shout "You black rat" is probably better called racist than discriminatory. "You black rat" is racist. "The perpetrator was black and 5 feet 10 inches tall" is not.

>You did not answer the question, if he said "You red rat", "You small rat". Is this discrimination or not ? If no, what makes it different ?

The difference is in how it is perceived. If there were a history of discrimination or abasement to persons with red hair, then "You red haired rat" would be perceived as derogatory. But there isn't.

The fact that a black might see 'You black rat' as being a racist shout after a history of being lynched, sold into slavery, and in fact, being defined solely by skin colour, is not a stretch for me to accept.