Hi Peter,

>>Would you regard "You red (haired) rat" discrimination ? I would not. Insulting yes, but no discrimination. What makes the difference here ?? My wife comes from a red haired family and have had a lot of remarks like "Hé rooie, wanneer spring je op groen", of "Lelijke rooie heks", etc. Is this discrimination ? They never thought it was discrimination, but rather insulting. If I project this to "blacks" it suddenly becomes discrimination, Again can you point out the difference between red haired people and blacks ??

>So, we agree yelling "hey, you black rat" is insulting, at the least. I think the reason why your wife doesn't regard "hey, red rat" discrimination, is because she does not experience discrimination due to having red hair in other aspects. But if there would be discrimination of red haired people, then she would probably also regard "hey, red rat" as discrimination. In other words, there is a socio-cultural context that influences whether it's only insulting or also discrimination.

Well, if the act of discrimination depends on vague factors like history and the race of the one making the statement, then it would be impossible to judge whether something is discrimination.
If you making insulting generalisations/rules without any real merit other than disliking, about certain groups of people, then it is discrimination regardless of the status of the one responsible for that act. Again I just don't see the difference between "You black rat" or "You red rat". I firmly believe there should be a much more rational definition rather than the one based on emotions, beeing a minority, past history, etc. If you don't do so, you'll like create gaps where there is an unequal balance to what both minorities and mojaroties can say to eachother.

>>BTW, AFAIK, I've never used phrases like the above,

>And there's a reason why you haven't... :)

Probably because I'll never try to insult people, unless I'm tested. Anyways, I'll probably say "Black rat" just as easy as "Red rat", without any intentions to discriminate. I know a few very fine "black" or coloured people, of which one very good colleage.

Walter,