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>I grew up in Argentina. We did not pray or sing hymns at school (public school). All we praised where patriotic stuff (akin to the Pledge of Allegiance). We did not have any incidents of guns or vandalism or other crimes whatsoever. That was living in a normal Latin American society where people do not own guns and were parenting is strong.
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>Like it was said before, morality and values do not depend on religion.

Well, yes, but political stability doesn't depend on an unarmed citizenry ( at least un-armed good-guys ) or a lack of hymns or prayer. I seem to remember some unpleasantness in Argentina from 1976-83. Granted, many of the not-so-nice people who *had* guns were probably big on prayer ( or, on the other side, a rhetorical quasi-religious Marxist version ) but my point is that each culture has its own history and traditions and sometimes working within that context is more important that creating absolutes which look great in a college classroom but have the potential to see blood in the streets.

I'm personally not particularly in favor of prayer in schools and would still feel I had a place in the universe if "God" was not mentioned on the money or in the pledge. But seeing what are basically historical and cultural references don't scare me. (even if some of their strongest defenders and opponents do )

But it all does seem to be an obsession with form over substance. I think the genius of the American constitution is that is pre-supposed men were venal. More sanguine versions of Man's nature have led to some incredibly bad social arrangements.