Peter,

>>Peter,
>>
>>You are correct sir! <s>
>>
>>Making an assertion is not the same as talking at (berating?) someone.
>>
>>I am making an assertion I believe to be true. If it isn't please show me. I don't mind being wrong at all.
>
>Doug, it's okay then. For one moment I thought that you had certain persons here in mind... <s>
>
>I think your assertionS indeed ask for some reactions.
>
>First, I get suspicious when you write 'forced secularism'. It sounds asif you think secularism is an evil thing.

Well, on a philosophical and spiritual level I actually do think it is evil. From what I have seen in cultures that embrace this thinking I see an emptiness unlike I have seen elsewhere. That however does not give me the right to mistreat anyone though.

>
>Second, some atheists spend so much effort over something they don't believe in, because they have this view of (fundamental) religion as dangerous and harmful to the world. They are worried!

What in the world are they afraid of and what are they worried about? Anyone who would want to force someone to believe as they do (and as has been done in the name of Christ - sadly) is NOT representing Christianity faithfully. Not at all.

>
>Third, some atheists (antitheists, so to speak) are like the Christian missionary, but on the other pole. If Christians want the right to try to convert people, then atheists also claim that right.

*chuckle* Go for it. <g> I LIKE a good, honest healthy debate! As long as everyone follows the rules.

>
>Fourth reaction, I agree if you state that there should be no force (to convert or to silence) applied by atheists. But I think you have made wrong observations if you think that certain atheists try exactly that.

Well, I would beg to differ.. China, USSR, Cuba, France to a lessor degree and elsewhere around this globe HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of people were slaughtered because they would not give up their faith in God. No offense but the facts are that in th elast 100 years more Christians have been martyred for their faith than all other centuries combined.

Now, has 'the church' done much better over the centuries? NO, not at all. Neither has Islam. Or some others.

Look at the title of this thread. <g> When we were going to high school it wa sok to have a Bible club or Bible studies on the lawn at lunch. Now, no way. You should study up a little on Sanger & Dewey.

Best,

DD

>
>
>
>>Best,
>>
>>DD
>>
>>>[snip]
>>>>Too many people want to litigate OTHERS to HAVE to follow their position without giving that considerationas well. The forced secularism in our culture in the name of tolerance is just one such example. Why athiests have to spend so much effort over something they don't believe in anyway baffles me (as an example). They don't like the fact that I believe? Fine. Don't force me to not express (remove freedom of speech) my position just because you don't agree. I tolerate your non-god thoughts - tolerate my god-thoughts. I don't care if you think I'm a fool. *shrug* A real one-sided position all too often is seems.
>>>>
>>>>I have no desire to force someone to believe something THEY choose not to believe. I just object to their attemts to silence me. I am not trying to silence them but often they don't seem to 'get' fairness. again, *shrug*.
>>>
>>>Doug, in another spot you say you enjoy having discussions WITH people, not AT them. I hope that the above statement is in accordance with that wish. In other words, that you were not talking here AT.