>>John, point me to a link where anybody (other than some moron like Marion Barry) has said that 'gun bans stop crime'. That's a bit of misdirection that the NRA pushes because no rational person thinks that, and the NRA feels they can make the gun lobby look stupid by attributing quotes to them that they never said.
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>>Personally, I think gun bans are stupid and the people who push them (usually governments) do it so they look like they are doing something while in fact, they are not.
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>>Possibly if every jurisdiction in the world had gun bans, it might make a dent, but otherwise, no. That's not to say I still don't believe in regulation and licenses that actually mean something. By that I mean that just any schmuck shouldn't be able to get a license just because he has no record. Getting a license should mean passing tests, just like getting a drivers license is supposed to.
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>No argument from me. I don't mind a person being required to learn to shoot if they want to own a gun, unless they are just a collector or inherit them. However, I'm sure I could provide many links to morons of Marion Barry's ilk who say the same stupid stuff. The city of San Francisco has been trying to outlaw guns recently, but the NRA is threatening a lawsuit and so they have backed off somewhat. Something about the second amendment, I think.

Well, I've heard lots of people (as I said, mostly government types) talking about banning guns, but to be honest, the only time I've ever heard about anybody saying it will stop crime is when the gun proponents attribute those words to the gun ban lobby. I've never heard anyone in favour of banning guns actually say it.

Kind of like every mimic using the line 'Play it again, Sam', while Bogie never did speak those words.

>The problem isn't the guns anymore than it is fertilizer (which can be used to make big booms) or gasoline (which can be used to make big booms), etc. It's the touchy-feely criminal justice system which allows people to get off with a hand slap.

I agree about the 'justice' system, but I do think guns are a bigger problem that fertilizer etc. Any fool can kill somebody (often an innocent bystander instead of the target) from a safe distance with far less bother using a gun than he can by using fertilizer or gasoline.