Hi John,

I'm saddened that you took it that way, and even more so if Dan LeClair took it that way. I only reproduced the sample that Rod had provided to lend some credibility to what I had to say about it. I didn't want it construed that I was someone who was more interested in complaining about the project than pitching in to help. I certainly didn't mean to imply that I was better suited for the job than anyone else or that I thought anyone was unworthy or unable to reproduce the application in VFP. There are hundreds of members here on the UT that are more than capable and that I learn things from every day.

I am trying to help and my motives are pure. If others feel the same way that you do and/or it starts to look like I am doing more harm than good, I will certainly step aside. I'm sorry my posts gave you the impression they did, I guess I did a poor job of communicating my intentions.

>Its funny how you jumped in and squeezed Dan LeClair completely out of the picture. He is supposedly already working on the VFP counterpart. I guess none of us are worthy.
>
>
>
>>I'm assuming, please correct me if I'm wrong Mike, that you are referring to the RIO reproduction that Rod did. That was not the application I was referring to. I'm working with Rod's latest .NET data demo application (the one he is designing for a learning exercise) and it is that one that I have so far reproduced in Visual FoxPro. While making some outside-the-box designs is perhaps worthwhile, I think it is best to stick to standard Windows conventions for something where we are going to be showcasing a duplicate application in .NET and Visual FoxPro. It just seems to me that it will be more valuable to those studying them. In the end, I believe it will showcase the overwhelming advantages that each language possesses (and both blows the other out of the water in certain regards), where they are similar, and what kinds of machinations are necessary in both to achieve the same result. If done right, developers for both languages will be able to look at each application and see
>>exactly how things are done in a real world database application in both languages. I'm confident that with the type of application I've proposed (and provided a quick VFP example of) that both languages will stand on their own merits.
>>
>>I'm hoping Rod and I will be able to come together on this. I should be getting a chance to see him in person at the end of January. I think this idea that Rod and other members of the UT had is a good one. Heck, I could also help facilitate doing the same thing in VC++, Delphi, and Java for that matter. A duplicate working MDI application with the basics of searching records, adding records, modifying records, deleting records and a menu/toolbar system... would be a great learning tool. I'd like to also include a report at some point, but for now a basic, windows standard (mostly) compliant UI for VFP and VB would be great.
>>
>>>Hi Craig
>>>
>>>What I think you missed is the reason for this thread. It was an application that demonstrated some rather unorthodox design. This demo was heralded as a new way of building systems and as something that would put .Net and all other VFP apps to shame. Some of the ideas that person proposes are interesting. The least of which is to think outside of the box.
>>>
>>>Rod only tried to duplicate that app to prove it could be done.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi Rod,
>>>>
>>>>I'm a little late to this thread. I downloaded your example today and for whatever it's worth, I duplicated it in Visual FoxPro (just to show that I'm not trying to get out of anything by what I'm about to say). I don't know if I'll go any further with this - probably not. The problem I have is the the functionality on the form seems very odd to me. I've never seen a form even remotely like this in a real world application. Seems like some weird cross between a query-by-example and something else. Also, it seems we will be switching to seperate screens for the Add and Modify? Why is that necessary? Also, there aren't easy ways to clear the filter, State filter, or the sort in your example (I've added a little bit to this in my reproduction of your example so that the user doesn't end up in a state they can't get back from without requerying the backend). I just don't get it I guess. I mean I loved the idea of seeing a side-by-side comparison of .NET and Visual FoxPro as it pertains
>>to
>>>>data-centric applications, and I'm not here to bash .NET in anyway. I just wish that the example used was a little more real world.
>>>>
>>>>Why not a quick and simple MDI application. One parent screen with a toolbar and menu. A child screen docked on the left with a grid for navigating customers, and some controls for searching and filtering the grid's contents (customers). Then allow multiple Customer windows to be spawned from the docked navigation screen. These customer screens would just be child MDI windows that would come up for whatever customer was selected in the grid (selection could be via 'Enter' being pressed while in the grid or we could have a button to facilitate this. The buttons on the Customer screen(s) that are brought up would just be the standard OK, Apply, Cancel. Etc. Etc. Etc... It would take about the same amount of time to build as what you're doing now anyways. Also, why the need for a custom database with a single table in it? Couldn't we just use the Northwind database for SQL Server? We could then later expand the example showing joins, possibly reports, and even show how to access
>>>different
>>>> backends via OLEDB - VFP database, MySQL, and even Oracle. I mean there are plenty of ports of the Northwind database.
>>>>
>>>>I guess I think that the idea of side-by-side examples for .NET and Visual FoxPro would be very useful, but I am very doubtful about the success or value given what is being presented. For me it's like some people are able to learn OOP from an example of a car, but I'm not one of those developers. I learn a lot more from a real world example (something we might actually do for a customer). I know as I said that I am getting here late with these suggestions (wish I had taken the time to read through this thread earlier and see what you were up to), but I did reproduce what you have so far just to show you that I'm ernest in my interest in what you are doing here. In any event, thanks for taking the time on what you've done so far. If you would like to work on a more real world example (doesn't have to be big or cost us much time), then let me know because I am more than game to create two exact duplicate applications with you (not as a competition but for learning and comparison...
>>>>those are worthwhile goals). If not, well then you've got another volunteer in this thread who I am sure will do fine with what you're presenting here.
>>>>
>>>>Notes on my reproduction example: I've just used a simple database with a single parameterized remote view in it (I marked it as updateable given some of your other requirements such as Add and Modify coming up). The connection gets created from a text file (connstr.txt) containing a connection string as in your example. I limited myself to the SET FILTER TO command for filtering and INDEX ON for sorting since that seemed to be what you wanted to show with local data. I didn't think it would be a fair comparison if I just used SQL Selects everywhere with dynamic order by and where clauses for everything. There are many ways this could have been done, I chose remote view for simplicity, but as you know SPT, XMLAdapter, CursorAdapter etc. are all viable solutions for Visual FoxPro. If we both had more time to burn, we could create a client-server example and use XML for transport. My example requires the VFP9 SP1 runtimes and source code is included. Here's the download link (Note to
>>>>others: You will need access to SQL Server so you can restore that backup of customer data that Rod provided on his site):
>>>>
>>>>http://www.sweetpotatosoftware.com/files/UTCustomerDemo.zip
>>>>
>>>>>OK I posted alpha 1 of the .NET version of our sample app.
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.dashpoint.com/downloads.aspx
>>>>>
>>>>>I have implemented the search capabilities and a lot of the local filtering, sorting and manipulation code.
>>>>>
>>>>>I'll be putting the add and edit customer code up soon.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Let me know whatch think...
>>>>>
>>>>>Happy 2006!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>>Rodman