>Hope I am posting this in the right place.. lemme know if I am not please.

basically the VFUG sub-secti0on is for VFUG related issues
but nevermind that for this thread

>
>I have these grids in a form, and once I programmatically setup the relations, (no dataenvironment used) at some point it gets to where the grid will only access one record.. the record that matches a specific value previously seek()ed for. If I set order to 0 from command window, then all records are visible. If I reset the recordsource to the same thing, then records from the matching one down are visible, and none of the records that come before it are. I have tried and tried to figure out what the property or variable is that is storing this filtering value, but I can't find it. It is as if a set key has been issued or something.

is it possible that the frid shows only the record that match the relation critia ? (which is the expected behaviour)
or am I not understaning your q.

Arnon