>I agree and I do the same, I just don't think you can say we REALLY have free will. I guess I see things you don't also. I couldn't begin to list the carnage I've come across during my years as a cop. I feel blessed to be somewhat sane.

I think that one of the downsides of being a cop is that you see too much of the dark side. I remember hearing a few years back that the cops in my town didn't think much of the teenagers. Of course, they only had contact with the ones who got in trouble. Around that time, we started having a cop in school getting to know the kids and he thought they were, for the most part, great.

Yeah, there's lots of awful stuff out there, but there's lots of really good stuff, too. On Monday, Marshal and I spent half the morning with the director and development director for a non-profit we've been supporting for years. (Apparently, our support level crossed some magic threshold at which they want to get to know us personally. <g>) This group is tackling poverty by providing a combination of housing, social services, support for education and more. The rule is that their clients can stay in the organization's housing for as long as it takes to get an associate's or bachelor's degree, but there's a program they have to follow. People are with them for as much as 8 years, but when they leave, they're ready to lead productive lives. These people are doing great work and chaning lives and a community slowly but surely. (http://www.pcah.org/)

This is just one example, but there's lots more out there.

Tamar