>SNIP
>OTOH, they don't cost much as they don't have any rights as well. They also help the economy, though some of the money might be flowing to the family to mexico. Illegal people are not so much of a problem in a society where there are limited governmental benefits. The european society is a bit different in this respect.
>
>I disagree and below are some small examples why:
>
>http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty2.htm

Not that I don't agree with this obvious downside, I find this article extremely polarizing and based on thouhths rather than actual facts. e.g.:

Where did those vehicles go? Who stole them? Take a guess. Arizona is the temporary home of 500,000 illegal aliens. You'd better have some more solid argument then this. This easily could fall into the category of discrimination, if you can backup up this assumption.

>They cost Arizona taxpayers over $1 billion annually in services for schools, medical care, welfare anchor babies, loss of tax base and prisons.

As a nation I'd rather deal with an educated alien than an uneducated one. This is a policy I think many western countries do have. Alien do have or get kids. Not knowing the exact reasoning behind it, but as the US needs cheap people to drive its economy and can't or does not want to avoid alien comming in, you better take the steps not to ignore those groups (They've tried in france and did see the results last year).

As for medical care. I still did not get a definate answer from anyone up here. I have a hard time believing they get anything beyond inmediate medical care. I can't imagine they have rights to more medical care than those 40 - 45 million people without health insurance. Correct me if I'm wrong here. If I'm correct, I'm quite upset of the polarizing statements like "illegal get free medical care, while 40+ million people are exclude from health care", because then at the very least it is a misleading statement, but I'd say a straightout lie.

As for loss of tax base. This is might not be quite true either. For everything an alien buys, it pays taxes. If an alien has a regular job, it pays taxes. Of course if they are criminal they won't, but that counts for all criminals and really is a problem of crime rather than blaming the aliens, the government should take better steps to prevent crime.

As for prisons, I don't have any numbers of prisoners that are divided by ethnicity, but I'd like to see them. As for crime in general, there definately is something wrong in your society as it is by far the most violent one in the western world and holds by far the most prisoners per capita. Long punishments and the three strikes you're out rule for small crimes, only reinforce that. This is something that needs serious work for future governments (I've no hope for the current one)


>Illegals use those vehicles for smuggling more people and drugs from around the world into our country.

Drugs get into your country from various routes, not only mexico. A lot comes in by plane or boat. The war on drugs is lost and did not have a change to start with. It is better to accept that and start thinking what the best achievable option is here. Holland AFAIK has the best drug policy in the world. It makes a distinction between soft and hard drugs and though not legal, it allows soft drugs like canabis to be sold in a regulated way. It is not the most ideal solution, but it keeps the prices low, reducing drug related crimes. For ones the hopeless harddrug addicted ones there are programs to get them the drugs or substitutes for free.

>When the vehicles are recovered, they are smashed-up wrecks in the desert. If not found, they have new owners south of the border as thieves drive the cars through the desert and into Mexico as easily as you drive your kids to soccer practice. THAT’s how porous our borders are!

Well come to europe, if you drive from holland to germany or belgium you hardly notice borders. A mere sign that you entered belgium or germany is about it.

Another thing to think about: Without immigrant the US would never have been what it is now. Aside from the native indians you're all immigrants. Roosevelt, Kennedy and others (e.g Rupert Murdoch) have all said that america should not fear immigrant, but see it as a way to keep the american dream alive.

If we talk about the large number of hispanics (legal and illegal), the future of those groups are not as black as people want you to believe. There are many who start businesses (10% of all new businesses are started by hispanics) and 1.5 million latino businesses. Almosts 30.000 hispanics earn more than 1 million dollar annually. On the average they are hard workers. They also seem to do better than african-american.

You have to realize that the american economy for a significant part runs on immigrants, and is a perfect cost price regulator. Thats is why the president want temporary working permits for these groups. Many latinos are prepared to work for little, keeping the wages low, which is in favor of the economy.

It is not that I agree with this whole economical model (in fact I do not), but it is typical american and in fact the base of its strength. In previous messages I strongly disagreed with this model (live to work as opposed to work to live). One could praise the american economy, but please don't whine about the less plesant factors inmediately attached to it.