You can go to crooksandliars.com and search for Zinni. It was last weeks meet the press. Watch his interview.

His point as well as Murtha's and the article in the New Yorker is that a war can not be fought with just military might against an insurgency. The end result of such an effort is exactly what we are seeing now. The insurgency gets stronger.

Unfortunately, you'll have to buy the "new yorker". I found this online:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/covers/?060410onco_covers_gallery

I'm sure this is just a teaser thou. I find the article fascinating from a military history point of view. One paragraph in particular sums it up. Basically in the first yr of the war Ricardo Sanchez was in charge of Iraq. He never executed a campaign plan. So division leaders were on their own. One division would operate hard-a*s, one would operate hearts-and-minds. In Falluja and Ramadi, where they emphasized killing and capturing, the war grew worse. In Northern Iraq, they emphasized winning over hearts and minds. They had considerable successes.

Basically these people don't believe we would have to fight our way back in. With us out of the way, Iraqi's would have to learn to fend for themselves. And people believe most would. In cases were that thought-process was incorrect, we would now have a single large force that should be able to quickly clean-up the problem areas.

>>I get the feeling based on your other comments you are an optimist for our future. So you think that even though there have been several instances of behavior that could be investigated, yet weren't, this one will tip the scales?
>
>This one would do it for me, regardless of who is president.
>
>>Also, I'm curious how you feel about some of the Iraq analysis' coming out now...
>
>I haven't read any of Zinni's comments, yet. If you have a link to the New Yorker article, I'd be obliged if you sent it to me. Personally I thought we made a big mistake letting Sadr and his militia survive.
>
>>This is what Murtha is proposing...withdrawing all troops and assembling them as a massive force outside Iraq.
>>
>>Then attempting a political solution as discussed in the New Yorker article, where the US has had success in cities like Al Tafar defeating the insurgentcy. In cases where the political solution doesn't work, we can bring in a large force to quell any uprising.
>>
>
>And fight our way back into the country all over again? No thank you. Murtha may be a decorated vet, but that idea is just plain suicidal.