>>Various degrees within each of course:
>>anti-American
>>nativist
>>libretarian
>>environmentalist
>>
>>My point is that the prior opinions/motives are fair game when assessing one's newly offered opinion.
>
>Opinions and motives yes - as in "this coming from the guy who once said < quote here >", not as "this coming for the guy who wants America to lose".
>
>I.e. what's fair, IMO, is to remind the reader of the critic of something that the criticised author actually said or did, not to just slap a label or a perceived intent. This "they want America to lose" is highly debatable, and prone to interpretation (as the one I saw elswhere in this thread - "they want withdrawal, but if we withdraw we think it means we lost, therefore they want us to lose" - very stretched), and using that as a means of dismissing the opponent's claims is not painting you as fair at all.

If the US pulls out immediately, the US loses. Do we at least agree here?
If the US pulls out immediately, Iraq loses. I believe this is true as well but I can understand disagreement.

Based on this if you want an immediate pullout, you want America to lose. It may not be your first reason, but it is an effect that cannot be ignored.

I don't think its stretched at all, but I admit my perception of the status of the war is vastly different than those I'm debating. I am very optimistic right now about the progress being made. I believe that Iraq has turned a corner and is heading towards a stable democracy. I also believe that an immediate pullout of the troops would be disasterous. From this point of view I believe that anyone who want to pull out now is actively encouraging the insurgency and seeking the defeat of the US.

>
>>When Falwell or Robertson make statements (about immigration for instance) do you consider those statements in and of themselves?
>
>>...or do you remember their past statements when considering how seriously to take them?
>
>I do read some right-wing stuff, just to keep in touch - but let's not go that far. These two guys are just too much :).