>You continually look for any glimmer to support your point of view. Completely ignoring the number of deaths as it increases. I'm still waiting for you to give me the impression that you aren't incredibly selfish. Everything is great with you because your world is going great.
>
>
>- Kill em all. Kill all those brown skin people
>- I got my insurance. F*ck everyone else
>- My friends made lots of money. I don't know what everyone else's problem is
>- This one is great. I didn't think you could think up something like "there are those who want to see the US fail in Iraq". Sure enough I heard a clip of O'Reilly saying those exact words.
>
>
>I want to hear what you got to say when one of your friends comes back not a whole man anymore. You going to take care of him?
BTW, citing a speech Bush gave as support of him is blind optism at best and pure ignorance at worse. Tell me one speech Bush has ever given in his history as president where the audience has not been prescreened. Once or tweice we've seen someone sneek thru. But 99% of the time you must prove your undying support of him.
>
>>Your response is very satisfying. For the umpteenth time you have completely disregarded what I had to say, point by point, and resorted to name-calling invective. You opinion remains, as I said before, that you "are right about all of your positions and they think the rest of us are too stoooooopid or uninformed to understand."
>>
>>BTW: The thunderous applause the troops gave to the President in Iraq supports my points below. Not that you'd notice.
>>
>>>Jake you are so full of it I can't even put it into words. You've drank the juice and have blinders on now, and can't see beyond your small little world.
>>>
>>>If terrorists get killed fine. But the way we are going about it, there are far, far more innocent people loosing their lives then any amount of terrrorists we are removing. You don't get it. There are far more people like me then you who are not willing to place so little value in human life that killing 20,000-30,000 to get to the ones we want are worth it.
>>>
>>>Much like all those who are anti-abortion, but dropping bombs on pregnant women is cool.
>>>
>>>Go back to shucking sunflower seeds. And stay in your own little world.
>>>
>>>>I guess I like bashing my head against a wall because I'm going to respond to you point by point again.
>>>>
>>>>>First, Enron was a special situation. I wasn't part of it, but it sounds like they created a cult atmosphere. So people were drawn into betting all their money on Enron. Even though they didn't feel like it was betting at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>If cults can get people to kill themselves, or others as easily as they appear to, it should be a piece of cake to get folks to give them all their money.
>>>>
>>>>People who get sucked into cults have serious problems.
>>>>
>>>>It is not smart investing to put a huge percentage of your investment capital (especially if you're near retirement) into a single entity. Serious economic education in this country from something like 4th grade on would virtually eliminate an Enron type disaster. It wouldn't have eliminated the crooks but it would've limit the number of people who "lost everything".
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Small investors can make money in the market.
>>>>
>>>>Hurray, we agree! :)
>>>>
>>>>>I know several who became quite wealthy during the dotcom days. But once again, those are special circumstances.
>>>>
>>>>The dot com days were a very interesting time. I had friends working in the silicon valley during those days. One described the business model of the of more than a few dot-coms like this : "Their product is stock. The business model revolves around generating buzz". This was particularly telling during the 1999 superbowl ads. He loved to laugh at day-traders, knowing what was coming.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Second, I do have a problem with your statements. And I think that reading what you write kind of put's somethings in focus for me.
>>>>>
>>>>>I know on one hand those who support today's environment are the one's who are suckered in by such things as the anti-gay arguements. The type of people who are described iin the book about How the Dems lost Kansas, or whatever the title is. Basically describing how these type of people feel that what they profess to be "morals" are far more important then anything else. These people are willing to bet against their own pocketbook when they hear key phrases, like "pro-family".
>>>>
>>>>That was a heck of a non-sequitor. You aren't attacking peoples' beliefs are you?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Now I see from you, how the other part of the equation are those who are blind to any potential problems in the equation. You feel like you are doing well, you've said you know some who are doing extremely well. So obviously things must be moving in the right direction.
>>>>
>>>>I pointed out numerous ecomomic indicators including: unemployment rate, the housing market (both sales and first time buyers), inflationary rate, GDP, federal tax revenues, rising national income averages, consumer confidence, the stock market... After sighting all of these items, several messages later, I decided to throw my personal observations into the mix. Now you have taken the last examples I gave and decided you know how I think. Once again you have completely ignored the arguements I have put forth and responded to what you inferred.
>>>>
>>>>>The fact that there are so many without insurance today,
>>>>
>>>>I pay for mine you pay for yours. Simple and fair. I believe this about most things.
>>>>
>>>>>that the poverty rate has gone up, means nothing to you.
>>>>
>>>>It should not come as a shock that I do not believe the poverty rate is a flawed measure. That being said you are right it doesn't bother me. People are free to work or not work as hard as they want in America. I believe everyone has more opportunity than ever to be successful if they apply themselves. As I said to you and you insulted me for it : In this economy, if you're not benefiting, you're not trying.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You also feel the war is the right thing.
>>>>
>>>>In the specific instances of Iraq and Afghanistan, yes.
>>>>
>>>>>And I think you have so little regard for human life, you don't care how many die in the name of the US of A.
>>>>
>>>>I have zero regard for the certain lives (terrorists in general, Zarqawi in particular), so I don't care how many terrorists die in the name of the freedom.
>>>>
>>>>>You are unwilling to analyze the arguements against the war. The lies, the deception.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I have gone through your "lies" point by point before. I have provided facts, links and logic to counter your opinions. You have simply chosen to ignore my arguments completely and move blindly forward without regard for any dissent. Of course you accuse me of the same. :) The difference is that I offer verifyable
fact while you continue to fire accusations.
>>>>
>>>>I've mentioned the Harmony projhect to you before. It's starting to come to fruition. Feel free to completely disregard the information coming out since I am linking to the foxnews.com website.
>>>>
http://www.foxnews.com/column_archive/0,2976,146,00.html>>>>
>>>>You can also ignore Ray Robison himself on his blog.
>>>>
http://rayrobison.typepad.com/ray_robison/>>>>
>>>>You keep bringing up "lies" but without compelling
proof. You wield subjective conjecture like the best of the kos hivemind, but you have zero proof to substantially back up your claims, again like the hivemind.
>>>>
>>>>The following is a complete non-sequitor:
>>>>I've been following several blogs from the YearlyKos event in Vegas and the collective opinion seems to be right on target for their (possibly your) beliefs. On the one hand they think they are right about all of their positions and they think the rest of us are too stoooooopid or uninformed to understand. On the other they are so upset that they are not being taken seriously that they are loosing faith in the cause. It doesn't help when they actually give in to being called the "tin-hat club".
>>>>
http://hotair.com/archives/top-picks/2006/06/10/infiltrating-yearly-kos-tinfoil-hats-spotted/>>>>
>>>>now back to our regularly scheduled discussion...
>>>>
>>>>>Well Jake, I want to know. What will it take you to change your mind?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Change my mind about what? That the Iraq war was the right decision? Only time will tell. Currently, we are winning the fight over there. Slowly but surely we are putting the pieces in place for Iraq to sustain itself as a free and democratic country. I understand that you are incapable of seeing anything but car bombs and IEDs but you really should look around a bit more. Turn off your tv and spend some time reading the milblogs. You might see that an estimated 40% of Al Qaeda's forces have been wiped out. You might see that the Iraqi security forces are growing in number and skill. You might see that every day more baathists and jihadis are eliminated based on tips from civilians. You might see that the US military has been meeting their goals for new recruits for several months now. You might see that the re-ups in the US military are still very high. Basically you might see that the people who are actually doing the fighting do not see things as being nearly as dire
>>as
>>>>you. I'll believe their actions over your words everytime.
>>>>
>>>>>I was listening to a talk with a medic back from Iraq, describing his experience there from 2004 to 2005. How everyone in the group he was with going over was making fun of a guy who loaded up the crate he was given for his things with nothing but metal. But they stopped laughing when they got to Kuwait and found out they were going to have to take a 4 day trip in an unarmored Humvee to Iraq. Suddenly that metal was a real good idea.
>>>>>
>>>>>The medic also talked about a day he spent in the hospital when 4 soldiers where brought in at the same time with head wounds. How when he lifted up one soldiers head to give him some water, he realized his hand was holding the guys brain through the hole in the back of his head.
>>>>
>>>>Another great non-sequitor. Honestly, all wars throughout history are filled with horrible incidents. Are you against all war in general? If so I'll respect that and let it go. Something about your tone tells me that you aren't against all war and that your opinions stem from a visceral hatred of Bush rather than pacifism.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Jake, do you wnat to see your friend's in Iraq brains splatterer all over?
>>>>
>>>>Of course not. However, I accept that they have made a choice to serve and I am proud of their decision. They, their families and I all realize that they are in very real danger, but they believe that the mission is worthwhile in the fight for freedom against terrorism.
>>>>
>>>>>If they get severely injured are you going to support their families when they can no longer get a job on their return?
>>>>
>>>>Their families have great support systems in place. They do not and will not worry about money.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Do you even care that at least 10,000 Iraqi civilians have died since our occupation? How many have to die before you can't handle it anymore?
>>>>
>>>>How many died under Saddam's rule (per year)? Any chance that trend would've changed had the coalition not gotten involved? 10,000+ American civilians died last year as victims of violent crime. How many have to die before you stop looking at body counts as justification for your opinions?
(On an infant's shirt): Already smarter than Bush
