Hi Garry,

>>What kind of client inssist 'NET&SQL' ???
>The ones that have add their a$$es bit by problematic .DBF useage, CDX corruption and/or systems written in languages with a dwindling legacy talent pool. Ones that have done "due diligence" when deciding the best direction to go when having a new system developed (where initial development cost isn't the only focus). The one I talked to a couple of weeks ago :)
>
>>Only time I ever heard something like that is in VFP vs NET threads here on UT. Never in real life.
>
>Maybe you all live in an alterative reality in Cyprus :)

Cyprus business is something else (will not comment on that), I am talking about internationl shipping. Yes it is different business reality then any other I ever experienced. It is fast-paced , dynamic, and very much high preassure environment. Having dev. cycles of 2-3 years involving 2-25 persons is not something you can hv here. Budgets are NOT the problem - time is.

This is where VFP/RAD is THE best. And YES VFP is way to go in our case.
YES because we are midsize shipping bussiness, YES because I do built average project in less then 3 months. Yes because it is flexible and yes because it does not hv ANY known problem.

Not to me at least. Problems with DBFs are history! It used to be a problem back in dos days - but not today. Ever since I jumped to VFP and started using buffering/transactions I can tell you that I almost forgot all about corruption. In like 7-8 years I got 2 CDX corruptions and that is all.
It is ROCK stable.

Just few days ago, starting new join venture, there was (bit below) top level meeting involving Shipping Operations Managers and IT managers
of founding companies. Guess who provided most of solutions and what platform will be used? That is right :) Reason being ?
Availability of solutions nothing else!
This was not VFP *winning* versus Oracle platform ( NET/SQL was nowhere in the picture) It was all of us versus pressing deadline.

>
>Ignorance is bliss - how can a guy who calls Foxpro "faxpro" be expected to know or understand the problems and pitfalls of the underlying technologies his application is developed in. He has to rely on IT people - if all they do is VFP, then the old adage springs to mind - "To a hammer, everything is a nail".

He does not care to know anything about it.
He knows me, I know some VFP, and - we never let him down :)
He wld not care if we did it in q-basic for as long as it fits the purpose.
My boss is a cool shipping taycoon, who have every right to call
VFP 'fax-pro' , I 'll alow it to him any time :)
[...and I used to kill for way less then that :)) ]
Do you realy think shareholders (shipping taycoons) starting new ventures every couple of years, hv time to read technology reviews and listen to someone like me or you explaining comparative advantages of NET vs VFP ??

People are actually happy with our VFP solutions, and that is all that matters. I will realy like to hear user experiences with freshly built NET stuff.


>
>>Now, I would personally feel like cheat, If I told them ;
>>- Has to be NET & SQL
>>- It will take 1 to N+1 persons/years to develop
>>- Will cost us $$$$$ in SQL licences only
>
>I have never told a client that something has to be NET/SQL. They do that all by themselves. Applications take a certain amount of time to develop. If you think they take longer because they are in .NET, you are simply making assumptions. If you want a robust database, then its got to be SQL server/Oracle or similar. DBF's just don't cut the mustard in an enterprise. You can use ADO.Net with any number of "free" ODBC compatible SQL back-ends - it doesn't have to cost. If an application can use DBFs, then it can be done using SQL 2005 Express - that's free too. If I had to write a VFP application again, I wouldn't dream of using .DBFs, not in a million years.


Heyya Garry :)
Don;t get defensive, I did not say you do this. M$ is leader in this area :)

>
>>instead of
>>
>>- Will take 3 months (on average) to develop and another 3-6 to fully implement/debug/round up.
>>- no additional costs (except eventually purchasing latest VFP version)
>
>So you can say ahead of time that every VFP application with take 3 months to develop? Clearly you cannot do this - they are all different yet you are comparing an "(on average)" three month VFP development cycle with "1 to N+1 persons/years" for a platform you have no experience of? Surely, you jest?

No, that is why I said average.
My average for type of projects (Desktop/LAN/TS) that I am doing at least.
I hv my own framework, builders, dictionary etc, why you think is impossible ?? But RAD is where VFP shines.

I really just assumed about NET, but based on what I hv heard from NET crew
[ Happy Indians :) ] who offered to sell us project(s) I did already.
Maybe they were no god crew, or lying, but timing was incomparable.


>So, you have a mission critical VFP application and you need some additional work done on the system to meet the requirements of a business opportunity that has come your way. You advertise for 3 VFP developers. You get no replies so you go to a job agent and ask them to help. They cannot help because there are no VFP developers on their books. "I know, lets go to a local college, grab 3 kids and teach them VFP". Who knows, in 6-12 months time, they might just be good enough to let near your mission critical application. By that stage, your business opportunity has passed.

Don't ask for VFP :) Ask simply for *programmer* and some common sence.
I wld not realy offer junior programmer's job for mission critical things...
Since we are talking about framework, they wld be more like
*implementators*, because hell no!, I wld not let them do any programming on their own. If you do, then you are in for DBF & payroll corruption/bloat :))
As a matter of fact, after major design is done,and framework do what is suppose to do, I could teach anybody to help me out with donkey work of filling up properties over and ove again and do repetive simple reports.

If I had 5 realy good VFP guys, I wld not know what to do with them,
except dispatch them to different branches/ventures in need. I used couple of juniors as assistants during rush hours in the past, and that is about it.


>>but I would most probably still do things in VFP :))
>Let's hope retirement is not too far off for you :)

My dream is to open Restaurant on the beach :)
Will retire when I collect enough money to purchase one.

>>I would be realy happy to jump into those *tough-guys* languages :) Somehow I always managed to develop what I was hired for with some xbase flavour. (VFP being the best ever)

>
>"To a hammer, everything is a nail" :)
Will overlook this typical british cynicism.

O yes, I nailed every project I ever came across, and I will continue to do so :) I repeat, I wish I get some thing that CANNOT be done with VFP so I
will hv to learn something new as well. Until then I will continue to enjoy VFP.

Cheers
Sergio