[SNIP]
>Pasadena is still not my choice of place to live, but is nowhere near as polluted as it was in the 1970's through early 1980's.
>
>I'm not going to defend Hummer drivers, as a class I think they are morons who have way too much money and not enough sense. But the US has made great strides in pollution control over the years, and does not warrant the slapping you and Metin seem to want to give us.

Dan

I'm hardly giving a slapping. Not bothering to go back over the thread I just find the idea of "We don't need to join Kyoto because we can do it better" amusing. Of course many places have cleaned up their air - who would put up with it today. Hell, we're no angels, but from everything I see of the US, you do seem to be the consumate consumers. Mind you, strangely, Australia is a bit naughty too.

Ridiculous the other night: A TV ad was encouraging us to save energy, citing the Energy Saving Council or some such, for advice on saving. Immediately following was an ad for Las Vegas, with all the images you'd expect: dazzling lights in the desert, huge dancing fountains, neons, chocker-block with cars, animated canopy light shows, 24/7 lights-on culture.

There's a lot of stuff on telly nowadays educating us on our "carbon footprint", and I'm just as guilty for taking frivolous trips out to Egypt for a week's diving, driving to work. But I do try by switching off unnecessary lights, switching off "stand-by" household appliances (PC, monitor, video, TV, digital TV receiver, broadband router, etc.), not taking the car when I can walk it, not having the heating on too high, et al. OK, I haven't been in many American homes, but film and TV representation of such always feature all lights on (even already on when returning home), 'puters always on, TV springs to life from the remote, driveways crammed with cars (and I HAVE seen this in Canada), the 6-lane highways (with 3 lane feeder strips) wall-to-wall with cars - again, seen for myself. I could go on. And don't get me started on styrofoam cups and burger cartons, etc.

Incidentally, I saw a telly docu some months back showing how air pollution is reflecting some of the sun's rays and ameliorating the effects of global warming, and that the cleaner our air gets the more GW will take effect - a double whammy. Aircraft con-trails are one of the conributary factors. The skies over New York were clear of traffic for a few days after 9/11 and the temps recorded at NY rose by several degrees.

We're all doomed!