I'd like to apologize in advance for misspelling Hezbollah. I've seen it spelled three different ways, and I'm not sure which is correct.

>>>But from what I see/hear Isreal has gone wayyyyyy too far. Just as the U.S. has gone wayyyyyyyyyy too far in the (alleged) "war on terror".
>>>
>>>Seems to me Israel could have strengthened its border posts to deter future kidnappings.
>>
>>That is not a solution as the rockets into would still be flying as they were before the kidnappings.
>
>How many rockets into Isreal from Labanon before the kidnappings? More to the point, how many citizens of Isreal were killed by those rockets?

I do not know the exact number. What I have read is that numerous mortar and rocket attacks occurred just over the border since 2000. I also have no data on the civilians killed, however, just like the small death toll now, it is more due to the Israelis' bomb shelters and warning systems. There have been over 1600 rockets fired since the kidnappings, yet only 36 Israeli civilians have died. Those protective measures are the reason.

>The count is now over 35 Israelis DEAD since the retribution began. It adds up to a poor choice by the Israeli government in my books. Except that we are not aware of all the other factors at play here that seems to have the U.S. quite pleased with how things are going.

Hezbollah committed an act of war. Israel has every right to defend itself as they see fit. I would argue that removing Hezbollah from Lebanon benefits the world, not just the US.

>>>By escalating the way they have Israel knew full well that it was jeopardizing countless regular citizens, yet their deaths seem to be acceptable while harm to the 2 soldiers is not.
>>
>>C'mon Jim. There is a difference between targeting Hezbollah's members, safehouses and weapons caches, which are purposfully hidden amidst civillians and firing unguided rockets, some loaded with ball bearings for maximum casualties, into a city hoping to kill as many civilians as possible.
>
>C'mon, Jake, your own response tells the story. The very idea of targeting anything that is purposefully hidden amidst the civilian population is a non-starter.

Wrong. If you sleep with dogs...These "civilians" have been living together with Hezbollah for 24 years. It's not like there isn't some mutual support there.

If you live in
-a hurricane zone you're going to get hit
-tornado alley, you're going to get hit
-earthquake area, like the coast of California, you're going to get hit.

If you live amongst terrorists, you're going to get hit.

>Except when other hidden objectives may be at play.

Like the safety and security of Israel? Yeah real hidden.

>The Israelis apparently have poor aim and/or poor quality guidance in their missiles, given what's being bombed.

Huh? 320 dead and their aim is off? You're kidding.
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2006/s1695539.htm

>And you see a difference between a 40 pound 'payload' with some ballbearings and a 1000 pound bomb surrounded by metal that becomes shrapnel?

Of course those small payloads are indiscrimineltly aimed at cities vs precision attacks of 1000 lb bombs. Where do you think Hezbollah would "precisely" target a 1000 lb bomb? A Tel Aviv shopping center maybe?
There is zero moral equivelence here.

>How many rockets from Lebanon, causing how many deaths, BEFORE the kidnappings?... Aimed at which cities?

see above

>>How many Israeli civilians would've been killed were it not for their air-raid sirens and countless bunkers? The rockets have been flying since the pullout. Just like what happened in Gaza.
>
>How many from Lebanon, causing how many deaths?... before the kidnappings?

see above

>>
>>Take this from another angle. What if the weapons were reversed and Israel had rockets and Hizballah had tanks, jets and 2000k bombs? Is there any doubt that hundreds of thousands of Israeli's would be immolated and their cities reduced to rubble?
>
>No doubt at all. Just like it's actually happening right now with Israel doing the power shooting.

320 to date. How is that hundreds of thousands?

>>>Personally, I think there's something bigger at play here, probably involving attempts to get 'reaction' from Syria and/or Iran... then watch the fireworks fly!
>>
>>There are several messages being sent.
>>
>>Israel is sending a message to Syria and Iran. They know that Syria has provided the Katyusha rockets with ball-bearings. They know that the radar guided cruise missles that hit an Israeli warship and an Egyptian fishing boat were C-802s which are an Iranian-made variant of the Chinese Silkworm.
>
>Forget about "messages" and tell me about objectives.

Initially the goal was to pound Hezbollah until they released the Israeli soldiers. Once it was obvious that wouldn't happen the objectives changed.
-Destruction of Hezbollah's rocket supply
-Destruction of Hezbollah's offices and caches
-Destruction of Hezbollah's ability to attack Israeli cities with random rockets and mortars.

These have been stated.

>Do you find it strange, as I do, that this started within days (maybe hours) of Iran replying that they believed the proposal delivered regarding their nuclear 'ambitions' presented an acceptable framework for discussion? You should if you don't.

Do you find it strange, as I do, that the kidnappings in Gaza and then from Lebanon occurred just before the G8 summit where the main topic was Iran's nuclear ambition? You should if you don't.

>Do you find it strange that Secretary Rice suggests there may be a "cease fire" IN A FEW WEEKS yet when that happens she anticipates a multi-national force with teeth to get between the antagonists? Why can't they just do that now? Why does it take 6 weeks of war first????

So Israel can sufficiently disarm Hezbollah, like the UN resolution demanded. If they had just disarmed voluntarily after 2000...or just returned the kidnapped soldiers...or not kidnapped them to begin with...

>One possible answer is to get Syria and Iran to do some misstep somewhere along the way. Something perfectly natural but blown all out of proportion.
>Do you find it strange that Iran and Syria are accused of funding/supplying terrorists yet the U.S. was the master of such skulduggery in the past?

Are you suggesting that 2 wrongs make a right? Haven't you hammered the US in the past for just this type of action? Shouldn't you be consistent?

>No, with elections looming in the U.S. and Iran ready to talk about its nuclear programs and Iraq going as it is and Afghanistan in a sorry state, something had to be done. Wag the dog.

Your ability to find a conspiracy knows no bounds.

Let me try one out. The Republicans in the US are facing a difficult midterm election and Bush's poll numbers are down so Karl Rove came up with a plan. If Iran will get their surrogates to attack Israel then Israel will engage them and the whole world will come down on Israel like always. This will be mutually beneficial as it will distract the G8 from Iran's nuclear ambition and the stupid Americans will see an ally fighting terrorists, which will remind them that Republicans are fighting terrorists which will remind them to vote for Republicans. So, Donald Rumsfeld calls up some old buddies from the cold war days to get them in contact with former KGB officers who are now working for Iran in Syria. They get in contact with the mullahs through Syrian intelligence. The plan is agreed upon and the next day an Israeli soldier is kidnapped in Gaza. This doesn't do the trick though so the more compenent, and well armed, Hezbollah is called in to do the job right. 8 dead and 2 kidnapped later and we have our distraction from the "real" problems like Bush's vetoing expanded funding for stem cells and ignorance of global warming.

It won't matter in a little while anyhow as bird flu is gonna getcha.

>
>cheers

:)