>>>>You are ignoring the question. Israel pulls out of occupied territory and continues to get attacked. What did the pullout accomplish?
>>>
>>>Almost six years of peace on that border.
>>
>>What peace? Hezbollah lobbing rockets and mortars and Israel not responding? That's your idea of peace?
>
>Lebanon wasn't in a war, which was much better than in the 80s. Or now.

That isn't peace.

>>OK so we agree then. Hezbollah has lost the moral high ground since they continued their attacks after Israel pulled out.
>
>Pulled out of Lebanon, pulled out of Gaza but left it surrounded, isolated and drained, and still keeps the settlements - or, as mainstream media call them, neighborhoods, on West Bank (correct me if I'm wrong on this). Somehow Palestinians in Lebanon are supposed to not have a care about other pieces of Palestine?

If that was the truth then they'd also care about the pieces in Jordan and Syria. Quite a considerable chunk of land. Why do you suppose we never hear a peep about them?

>> And since Israel started the withdrawl from Gaza in 2005 and the attacks continued, what should we conclude?
>
>That it just wasn't enough.

So even beginning the process is no good? How does one get started then?

>>>The distance between any two neighboring countries is always zero, you know.
>>
>>The range of a mortar is finite, you know.
>
>I know - that's why the whole "buffer territory" theory doesn't hold water. If the occupied territories were buffer zones to protect people of Israel, then why put these same people in danger by creating settlements in these zones. Doesn't make sense to me, except as a message that these were intended to be annected in the end.

They really screwed this part up, that's for sure. I f they intended to keep it then they should've done more than just the settlements. If they intended to bargain it back, then they never shoud've let their people move in.

>>Ahh the old jewish media argument. I commend you for not firing this one earlier.
>
>I didn't say jewish media, but you can read that so, in a way. Muslims have proven that they can master the western media to their favor (case of Bosnia and Kosovo and Chechnya to an extent), but in this case they seem to have far less success in pushing their message deep into the west.

Because they are on the wrong side. They are supporting the countless random targeting of civilians through terrorist means and Israel is responding. If the terrorists stop then Israel stops. 2 state peace. If they keep attacking the cycle continues.

>When an Israeli soldier dies, you get to know his name and that he was a gifted violinist; you never know the other side personally. (this is about "CNN as a weapon" two miles upstream this thread)

Many suicide bombers have we had profiled on major networks. Especially when they are under 18 or female.

>>My circle is older than yours. Jewish slaves fled Egypt thousands of years before Muhammed arrived on the scene. :)
>
>So you then agree Serbia should retake Kosovo? It wasn't really absent from there except the last seven years, and the history is more than a thousand years long, it should qualify.
>

How about the Romans? :)

>>>When you negotiate something, don't you start with some extra requests that are to be discarded in the process? Ask for fifty and be glad with twenty? It's clear to Arabs that Israel will stay; the "push into the sea" is, IMO, just flaming rhetoric, playing to the sentiment of the people. But I think their politicians are willing to trade for peace.
>>
>>Like Arafat? Like Hammas? What in the world makes you believe this?
>
>It has happened before. I've heard Arafat willing to recognize Israel in exchange for territories,

Show me. I've never heard anything that suggests Arafat was going to acknowledge Israel. Besides empty rhetoric of course.

>and Hamas was almost there just a day before this latest.

Before or after they kidnapped Gilad Shalit? I see that they are now talking about a cease-fire and releasing him. I wonder if the Hezbollah conflict has anything to do with it. Regardless I doubt they mean it.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/hamas-hints-at-ceasefire/2006/07/23/1153593211335.html

>>>And they know that any international support they may have would vanish once they try to grab more than the 1967 borders.
>>
>>It is disappearing now. Notice the arab states' meeting?
>
>No... too busy reading UT :).

;)

>>Did you see the pro-Israel rally in San Francisco, of all places?
>>The fact remains that Israel pulled out and was continually attacked. The same will happen in Gaza and the West Bank unless the terrorists are destroyed.
>
>Trying to destroy them will only create more. That never worked as long as they had a justifiable cause. Snatch the justification out of their hands first.

They already did in Lebanon. Same result.