Hi Christof, I've got it sorted now, I did check the things you mentioned before posting this thread , and they were all ok, what I did eventually did was, delete all the bin and obj folders for all projects and rebuilt the solution. One thing I noticed buried away in: Project/Properties/Build - then look in the Output pane at the bottom of the form there is a button with Advanced as a caption, press that and you see options for debug info, my project (the rogue one) was set to none (don't know how) thanks for your help ( did you used to be called Lange ?)