Hi John,

>>>That's exactly what I'm questioning...why aren't the Dems raising specific policy issues?
>>
>>Oh they are, but their voice is not heard. Each arguments will be trashed as 'liberal' and by definition would not have value. The liberals have some serious issues, like not having a strong man that unites the camp.

>But you have to wonder how did "liberal" get to mean a valueless thing? That didn't just happen.

Well, for one it has to do with the way you allow the political campaigns to reach for any tool to make the otherone black. The conservatives have been very effective in their campaigns to demonize the liberals (RATS incident..). We have seen so many personal attacks (especially on someones past), that it seems that there is no morality in political campaigns from my perspective).

>Back when liberal meant to have strong principles on the rights of the individual I could be counted amongst them...but now? Now you have liberals led by a bunch of seriously unhinged ideologues.

I agree, that the liberals do miss a strong man to unite the camp.

>>>And what constitutes the definition of how bad Bush is...
>>
>>Well, do a survey arround the world to compare previous presidents with Bush. Even surveys in your own country, will give a picture. I can say that in europe Bush is not popular. In general conservatives are not popular as european politics are far more to the left than even your liberals. If liberalism is good for us, it can't be that bad us is percieved in the US.
>
>Last I looked, "bad" was not defined by popularity polls. Yes, Europe is far left of us which is probably a good thing seeing as how when they move to the right millions end up dying.

hmmmm, isn't this what is happening in iraq?? :) I agree a cheap shot, but you'll have to wonder if the iraq campaign would have been there with a more liberal government. And BTW, up here liberal means right, not left. For example in holland the political parties roughly can be categorized (from left to right) in the following manner

Communists
Socialists
Democrats
Liberals
Conservatives (religious right)

The first and last are of insignificant size and extreme (The conservatives up here revoke rights from females). Hence my former statement that in the US there is no significant left.


>>If he is mispercieved by so many, you wonder why it is that way? (just blaming the liberals is not going to provide you the answer, though of course used by many as a cheap shot).

>There are a myriad of reasons why this is so. It's a complex discussion. Too complex to go into details here.

That is the same answer I could give you one the question why the word 'liberals' became a synonym for RATS.

walter,