Each company decides for itself what is the best match for them. I have never said .Net can't make a good app or web page, just that it is not the holy grail of programming. Many companies will choose .Net and do great, many other companies will choose .Net and fail. Same with Fox, or Java or whatever. You say you are learning dramatic steps forward, how dramatic is it, really?

>Well Dell is ONE company. What about MySpace? It's not like they are married to MS yet they have some of the highest traffic load on all the web. You make very valid reasons why sticking with VFP makes sense in some cases. I completely agree. Where I think I question however is your suggestion that .NET is somehow now ready for prime time. MySpace is just about as prime time as you can get and is probably close to being a $1 billion property like Youtube. Asserting that part of your decision is because .NET isn't ready doesn't help your case IMO as there are too many very high demand sites using the technology in live operations.
>
>The irony here is that VFP is in fact one of the best development tools I've ever worked with. To be honest though, I'm at a point of diminishing returns on just how much I need to know about VFP. I've worked with it for 12 years and if I don't know how to do something I can usually find out quick. Time spent learning .NET and the architecure is well spent though as everything I learn is a dramatic step forward.
>
>Good luck to you... off to get some work done!
>
>
>Greg
>
>>I agreed that business might have valid reasons for moving on, there are also valid reasons for staying in fox. I purposed to my boss to do a rewrite in .Net, knowing everything you stated, he decided to stay in fox.
>>
>>Why,
>>Our business is very dynamic and he wants specific improvements implemented immediately not a copy of currently functionality to be delivered in two years.
>>
>>If your argument is that large companies are using it, fine. Large companies also use Fox, Java, and Access. The hugh corporate enviroment is someplace .Net might do better than Fox, But Java dominates! How many of the large corporations are there, couple thousand, how many small business's are there, many times that number.
>>
>>As for the last part, I like being a programmer making the premium dollars, when that goes away, I'll consider moving on.
>>
>>(the whole moving the company thing was just silly)
>>
>>(also the Dell argument is weak, they are tied to MS for many reasons, a Website in ASP.Net is hardly the same as running everything in .Net, and they can afford many more resources than my company where 1 person manages the code for the whole operation ($25Mil/Yr sales, 80+employees)
>>
>>Thats the point, most companies just want their business's to run efficiently, which can be done in MOST languages, including Fox. I'm sure .Net works fine in many business's nothing wrong with that, It's just not where I am heading. It's amazing how many times I have been told that I have to move to this or that upcoming great thing, most of those people and languages are now gone.
>>
>>Bob
>>
>>
>>>First off... My opinion on this topic was directed from the business point of view. As a VFP developer I well aware that my VFP skills will be in demand for quite sometime. Putting my company however in front of my own interests I'm ethically bound to move them to technology that allows them more resources. You can't serious expect a 12,000 foot boat facility to pick up and move to the city because they need VFP programmers! :)
>>>
>>>Also, you say "IMO .Net is not there yet,"
>>>
>>>With all due respect, my question would be what makes you think that companies like Dell or Merril Lynch are building massive ecommerce and investing sites on .NET technology that is unproven? I'm not saying this to knock VFP at all, it's the tool I know best. But it seems that you are implying that you somehow know more about .NET than the architects of some of the biggest sites on the Internet. While you can certainly choose or not choose to move to .NET I hardly think Dell computers is going to tear down their ASP.NET site and replace it with a pure VFP equivelent. One would have to ask if .NET is not there yet for you, why is it there for companies with far greater requirements than you most likely have.
>>>
>>>VFP rocks and I know it will be a long time before I will be as efficient in .NET. Companies however need pools of talent so they don't pay top premium dollars to get programmers to maintain their system.
>>>
>>>Greg
>>>
>>>>A mature programming language will not have major changes in core features with each release and will protect investments in code with high regard for backward compatibility, and will have developers with 5 years or more coding experience in that language. IMO .Net is not there yet, and won't be there with their next version either.
>>>>
>>>>>Robert .NEt is a mature Product since .NET framework 1.0 was nothing more then the evolution of COM+, Now they just changed the name of WinFX and the name is not nothing else then .net framework 3.0 and that isn't no suprise, so to me the talk that isn't a mature product is just talk. You can say VS.NET have a bunch of bugs and that I agree, but has as many as other Microsoft product. Like VFP also has how many work arounds u do in VFP?
>>>>>
>>>>>>Well, I agree with most of what you pointed out. There are reasons for companies to move away from foxpro especially if you cannot find talented developers. Of course this makes a stronger argument for Java where there are more jobs, more developers, bigger clients, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And, conversely, if you cannot find VFP work where you are, then you should move on if you want to stay a developer. But as the number of VFP developers shrinks, there is less competition for those requiring VFP work keeping that market relevant.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I should also point out that companies that wait to adopt .Net havn't wasted a boatload of time on flaky versions that wern't mature enough. Companies who ride it out with VFP instead of rewriting for the sake of rewriting will save tremendous amounts of money, time, risk and have a competitive advantage over those who don't. At sometime in the future they decide it's time to move on, rewrite it then, with a more mature product.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Who knows what the world will be like in 10 years, what will be popular then, if MS will be around and relevant. Look at all the guys who were touting OS2 programming skills because IBM said so.......
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Greetings,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I will wade into this and say that although I've been a VFP programmer since the beginning and we are 90% VFP... It's very appropriate from a business standpoint to begin transitioning to .NET. This is not because VFP is cannot do everything. It has to do with looking out for the availability of a large quantity of talent for the businesses that I work for.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>While personally I have no problem at all with VFP, five or ten years from now, businesses that have 100's of thousands of lines of code written in VFP will see a shrinking pool of talent available to support and extend those systems. Moving toward .NET helps protect a business from being cornered into a system that a fraction of people can support compared to .NET. From a business perspective, VFP leaves a company with far fewer options in finding resources than .NET. This is far more critical in making decisions than if VFP can or cannot do the job as a tool. An analogy would be buying a car that only 10 mechanics in the entire world can work on compared to a car that has 1000's of mechanics available. The cars may be equal in performance, but when it comes to maintenance and repair there is no doubt which one is going to be easier to find mechanics for.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Greg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Fine, that works for you.
>>>>>>>>My plan is to take my investment in Fox and ride it out until I cannot find work, that works for me. I use one platform for windows app, web apps, etc and can access multiple types of data (dbf, sql, oracle, MySql, etc)
>>>>>>>>Again no example of anything fox cannot do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I thought that answer is simple I will never invest any new time or new development on a language that will not have anymore new releases and is a legacy application for the future.
>>>>>>>>>Dos applications can still run in windows and 16 bits apps also would u developt it ur new applications in FOXPRO for dos?
>>>>>>>>>again I prefer to have 1 underlying platform so I can do all my data access in 1 language and then using it from a windows app, web app PPC app....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>You are a leader using VFP, one product in .Net, switching to .Net to be perceived as technically hip and fresh.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Again, what are you doing in .Net that can't be done in VFP, and if you wern't planning on slapping .Net all over the box, why would someone care.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Bob
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Exactly I said that before, we are the leaders in our industrie and we like to keep it that way.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>BTW, I looked at your product line, mostly fox, well received by your customers. Why is it not all .Net, well you say that will take years of programming, there is one reason not to go there. Time, Money, Risk
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>You also mentioned your employer feels to be in the .Net arena for marketing purposes, fine, but I don't see what else your gaining from moving to .Net, just MS hype your customers have bought into. But I agree it can be important to go with the herd, and if you feel you need to do this to sell your product, there is nothing wrong with this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>How about some examples of what you can do in .Net to enhance your products that could not be accomplished in VFP in the same time frame (multiple years)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tracy that was my exact point, but u shouldn't blame the MVP's this is our profession we do it for a living, i'm not a MVP let me state that even before some one start saying that I think i'm better then anyone, I don't think that i'm not better or worst then any beguinner or MVP or expert, I'm what i'm and i'm proud of that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Now as Professionals we must think with our head and not with our heart.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>as I said before in my last devcon I saw the written in the wall, and I wasn't listaken as time prove it to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I didn't wanted VFP in the framework cause by then you would loose all the VFP advantages, I would like to see VFP as a standalone product with just integration with SQL like it was a VFP data.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>now all the work is being incorporated into .net framework, most of latest ado.net changes and speed improvements have come from VFP and that is great, but for me isn't a enough reason to stick only with VFP.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SNIP
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>My dream was to have VFP interact with SQL the same way it interacted with VFP data.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>We shared the same dream. I also wished that VFP would be IN dotnet - I don't care the reasons why it couldn't or shouldn't be - it will always have been my preference that it be IN dotnet - however it was managed. (I think the writing on the wall was overwritten in bright red bold letters when it was NOT and sadly I think our most valuable professionals helped nail the lid on the coffin at that time) My dreams don't typically come true as I haven't won the lottery yet. However, last night four deer walked in front of my car when I was backseat driving home (my 15 year old was actually driving (now that is a nerve-wrecking experience) - is that a good omen or a bad one? :o)