>>From CSM: "In a radio interview Tuesday, US Vice President Dick Cheney confirmed that US interrogators have used a controversial technique know as waterboarding to interrogate senior Al Qaeda suspects. McClatchy's Washington bureau reports that Mr. Cheney said the White House does not see the practice as torture, and allows the CIA to use it.".
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http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1026/dailyUpdate.html>>
>>Here is a pres conference later
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd5sNwuVOWA>
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>Wasn't this "torture" technique used to foil a recent bombing plot of airliners from Europe?
>I guess you can call it torture, but at least there isn't a permanent physical injury or death. It just makes it so miserable for the terrorist that they talk. If it saves the lives [of innocent people], I say "happy dunking".
I never saw that reported, Sam. What I did see reported was that the police had the folks under surveillance for MONTHS (nearly a year, as I remember) and they moved in when materials had been ordered by a member. Doesn't sound like any case of torture to me.
But the real problem is that **any** form of torture simply lowers us to the level of the terrorists themselves.
The example consistently used by the Administration is the good ol "ticking time bomb" and knowingly having a person in hand who is fully informed about it. The fact is that while the case happens mainly in the movies, *IF* a real-life instance occurred I'm quite sure - if torture solved the problem - that the torturer(s) would be exempted from criminal prosecution. They would, I have no doubt, be considered heroes for saving whatever they saved.
It is now understood that "Curveball" was tortured to obtain the "information" he supplied. Look at the good that did for the U.S.! It embarrassed Secretary Powell at the U.N., it had the President certain that there were WMDs in Iraq, etc. etc. etc. The U.S. basically lost its integrity with the world, and it's no secret how hard it is to restore integrity once lost. Probably restoring virginity is easier.
I find a certain irony in the concept of "preserving our freedom" by intruding in our freedom. As I see it it's a clear-cut admission that "freedom" doesn't work, and I say that those who have concluded so (and thus spied on citizens to 'protect' them) are WRONG. I find terrible irony in the idea of torturing people to "fight terrorism" because the act itself makes terrorists of us. You can argue that you and me will never tortue anybody. But our representatives are "us", so condoning their torturing people is as bad as doing it ourselves.
Finally, it is widely said that torture isn't effective, resulting in 'information' that is made up in hopes of stopping the torture. Imagine... we can lower ourselves to the terrorists' level by torturing people, and maybe even invade some country as a result of information gleaned, and there's a good chance that the 'information' was false to start with!
