>> I'm not talking what is acceptable to you and me.. I'm talking what is natural..
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>I used to walk to work past a herd of young bulls.
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>There were a few that could be seen regularly attempting intercourse with one another.
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>Some would see that as natural... bulls are creatures of nature after all (aren't we all?).

this is what really make us different than bulls.. the sapiens.. bulls act according to they instinct.. Humans has a little more than instinct to move its own destiny..
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>I would put forward the point that since we are all creatures of nature, born through natural processes then our actions are also natural. That opens up an even bigger debate... just what *is* natural?

this is what this discussion is about.. natural (or not) and the subjectivity of the things..
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>I believe that people don't just make a decision to take up a sexual orientation... sexual orientation is a gut instinct. Such inner urges and instincts must be as natural as the urge some people have to procreate or the urge some people have to eat. I also believe these urges to be natural.

and what about the 'sapiens'? what about the capacity of decision..