>It's useless to debate this further. I have strived to explain to you that our culture is different than yours. You don't want to accept that.

And where did I say that it was not?? I've alsways confirmed that our culture is different. That always has been my message in the first place. I've always explained that we have different cultures in europe, and that different does not mean inferiour.

>Instead, you judge our culture on your value points and think that you are superior.

Nope, then you have not read the message right. Our culture is different and has superiour items in it. The main superiour items of your culture are (IMO), its optimism, economy and integration, patroitism. IOW the american dream. However this is from our pov a two edged sword.

>Your entire country could vanish from the face of the Earth and it would not matter in the slightest. No one would lament the loss of Dutch culture or heritage - you would become a minor branch of a museum experience.

And that was the same for the US up somewhere on the timeline, where the Netherlands were the wolrd power (17th century). BTW, you would be suprised by how it would matter. Though we have small country it has an significant place in the world.

As I said in another message the dutch have made important inventions (audio tape, video tape, CD, CD-rom) even recently. Big multinationals like Philips, Shell, Ing, Abn amro, Unilever, Ah, ASML, smit-tak are of dutch origin. We host a number of important institutes like war tribunals, the international court. A number of treaties (e.g treaty of maastricht, treaty of amsterdam) have taken place here. You will lose dutch products like (gouda ao) cheese, heiniken, amstel and grolsch beer. We are at the top in a number of sports (Football, Ice speed skating, field hockey, volleyball, swimming, darts, etc). We are leading in making social advancements (gay marriage, drug policy, environmental). There are a lot of real good scientist up here which makes good progress in fighting deceases like cancer and aids. There netherlands is also a top ICT country and is the gateway to continental europe in many ways (e.g. it large harbour in Rotterdam). We have been the world champion in fighting water and are important seeman.
I think the world would have looked quite different without the dutch, esspecially since the 17th century. They were the driving force behind the euro and the EU constituation. A lot of american names I see up here are from dutch origin, so the US would lose a lot of their citizens as well.

IOW, I would classify your statement above as one comming from an ignorant american, even though you claim not to be. You clearly have no clue about the position of the netherlands in the world, and its significance. Is it more than the US ?? Of course not. The US it far bigger than the Netherlands, but consider making a comparison between the netherlands and a state like texas or washington.

>Your country matters little because it takes no chances and defers to the strengths and whims of others. I'd rather live in a country that takes chances and has principles than in one that perpetuates an effete existance predicated on the goodwill of others.

ehhh. The dutch are fighing in afghanistan and were present in iraq. They were there in yugoslavia and countless other conflict of the world. The dutch have always on the front in about every aspect. They were one of the founders of NATO and the EU. The dutch were one of the few who supported the war in iraq (amongst brittain and spain). We even were there when katrina raged over new orleans.

A good starting place to learn about its significance is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands

Walter,