Charles,

I don't wanna repeat arguments time and again and you probably neither. It is clear that our viewpoints difffer. So we might agree to disagree. The last thing I want to say is:

For you the "what now" question is apparently the only logical one. But others, like me, need the "why's this" step first. It's not up to you to judge those other people.

Cheers,
Peter
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>>>I completely agree with you on what decisions i wish Microsoft had made.
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>>This may surprise you, but perhaps I don't agree with you on what you wish MS had decided. I'm curious for the reasons, because I need them to decide for myself whether or not I think it was a wise decision. There are reasons and reasons.
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>Unless you are deciding whether to buy or sell Microsoft stock I don't see where deciding if it was a wise decision for Microsoft makes a bit of difference. I think ultimately the revenue stream for Microsoft that VFP represented one way or another means virtually nothing to their bottom line.
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>>>BUT - Rick Strahl said it correctly - Microsoft is entitled to make whatever strategic choices they like. We can agree or disagree, but they are answerable only to their stockholders and only based on performance.
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>>Rick Strahl gave his opinion. And you're entitled to share his pov. But that's it. He may be a guru, but not in all aspects. Others are of opinion that not only stockholders have the right to criticize MS, but also esp. customers. In another post I mentioned the possibility that this may also ultimately be a norms-and-values thing. The entitlement to make whatever strategic choice, may well be a North-American norm, rather than a universal norm.
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>Not sure this is an American vs Dutch thing. Remember who invented the stock market :-)
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>I think you are entitled criticize Microsoft all you want in any way you want. And Microsoft is entitled to ignore you and suffer whatever economic consequences that entails.
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>Odd you should use the word 'entitlement'. :-) I'm sure there are those who would be pleased if this could all be adjudicated by bureaucrats in Belgium ( sorry, couldn't resist ) but the free market doesn't work that way.
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>>>But I also understand a little of how business works and I don't really believe there is any value in asking "Why" when it has been as clear as can be that Microsoft is betting the farm on the CLR and that means VFP is not strategic. What more explanation do you need ? You may not like the answer but it is certainly a coherent answer.
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>>You are a North-American and know how business works in the US and how and when your corporations write 'signs on the wall' and how to interpret them.
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>Are you really saying you were surprised? Wow. You claim to have all you professional life depend on the health of Foxpro and yet you had difficulty realizing that Microsoft saying VFP was not part of their future strategy was an indication that VFP was not part of their future strategy? Which part of that was ambiguous to you?
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>>>So, I go back to my original point - not getting the answer you want is not the same as not getting an answer.
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>>I asked for the reasons. I did not ask for the answer I want. I asked YAG again because he gave no reasons. I said that 'not a strategic product' is a conclusion rather than a reason. Sure, it can also be seen as a reason. That's why I used the word 'rather'. But it's a 'reason' only because it's based on other, the real, reasons. I'm interested in those other, real, reasons.
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>'not a strategic product' is not an opinion or conclusion. It is looking at a list of things that are part of Microsoft's strategy and seeing VFP is not on the list.
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>>Weren't you the one who compared me to his young daughter?
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>No, I never compared you to a young daughter. My arguements are not ad hominum.
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>I am simply making the point that unless you can change the decision ( you can't ) the only relevant question for each Fox developer should be "Now what?"
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>>>Do you know YAG's history with Foxbase/Foxpro ? Remember Flash? Codebook? Do you think he and Ken Levy did not exert what influence they could to keep the Fox alive - probably at times risking pissing off other people at MS ? Didn't you notice it when EPS made a major push toward helping VFP developers migrate their skills to a new technology? Did you think they didn't know what Microsoft had in mind? Do you read Code Magazine?
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>>>Markus and Rick and Rod and a whole lot of other people who had status and market share and many apps in VFP started saying at least five years ago that they were exploring other tools. This did not sneak up on us. We can still use VFP as long as we like for existing apps. We can migrate to other tools as we see fit.
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>>>I think that in this forum there has been a 'political correctness' encouraged that caused people to often turn on anyone who was saying anything they didn't want to hear, somehow believing that if we stayed pure and faithful and closed our minds to any evidence of change that the change would somehow not happen. Admirable orthodoxy in some ways, perhaps, but not a particularly usefull approach to preparing for the future.
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>>Excuse me, but how come I have the feeling that I am the one who is perceived as politically incorrect here? Reactions like yours give me the impression that I am somehow breaking norms-and-values of the North-Americans.
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>I have absolutely no idea how you see this as something culturally biased.
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>I think I made the point clearly that those who warned this was coming ( and many of those were in a position to know ) were met with attacks as being disloyal to the Fox.
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>And the paradoxical part was that many of those people had the most to gain by lying to everyone and saying they knew Fox would last forever and grow and prosper and thereby capitalize on their positions and encourage sale of their products ( don't you think Strahl would like to have a potential customer base of a couple million for Westwind or Kevin for Mere Mortals VFP or Markus and Rod and YAG for books and articles, VFP consulting and speaking? Do you have any idea how much these guys could make if VFP had the demand right now that Foxpro had in the early 90's? They certainly weren't hoping Microsoft would suddenly go in a new direction - but they are professionals and adults and understand that you can either lead, follow or get out of the way.
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>>>I agree with and admire your passion, i just think energy directed at trying to browbeat Microsoft or its employees into reversing a strategic direction on which they have risked a lot more than you have is adolescent. What difference does the answer to "Why" make? The only question is : Is the decision subject to change or outside influence? I think it is pretty clear the answer to that is "No" so now the question should be "Where do I go from here ?"
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>>I'm not trying to reverse the decision one way or the other. I need more information (the reasons) to make up my mind about it and to be able to tell my customers a good story, that's all. I can think of several reasons - and I have mentioned some in this thread - that make the decision a valid one, in my eyes.
>>So, what difference does the answer to "Why" make? Yes, for me it makes a difference. I'm still not lethargic in this case.
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>You want YAG to take time to tell you stories so you can make up your mind about ... what??? It happened. What is there to make up your mind about? What you and your clients should be asking is "What are you going to do about it?" not "How do you feel about it?"
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>>Let me repeat, to be sure you get that point: I'm not trying to reverse the decision one way or the other. I need a more thorough list of reasons in order to be able to grasp why the decision was apparently inevitable. It will help me in making a better strategic decision for my own company and it will also help me in explaining it to my customers. And eventually the mentioned reasons are not valid in my eyes, but I suspect (suspect only) that the real reasons justify the decision.
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>>And I have not asked YAG again and again. But you can't expect that it goes like this:
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>So if you decide it wasn't a good reason what are you going to do - punish Microsoft by writing a nasty letter or not buying Vista?
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>If you decide to dump MS products and go open source or something that is your business decision and you don't have to explain or justify it to me, Microsoft or anyone else except your investors. The clients have to make their own decisions about whether or not they are getting their money's worth out of what you are doing.
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>Do what is best for your business. That's what MS is trying to do.
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>>>The energy would be better spent in continuing developing VFP applications and positioning oneself for the future.
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>>>I know that over the last 20 or more years I've made a lot more money from Microsoft than Microsoft has ever made from me. I'd consider that a pretty good deal and wish I could set up a similar relationship with the rest of the corporate world.
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>>>As the Tofflers pointed out so clearly almost forty years ago, the only thing we can be certain of is change, and that the rate of change will increase. So if you want to become an expert in something - become and expert in changing!
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>>>>>Hey Alan
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>>>>>I think it is very difficult for some people to realize that not getting the answer they want is not the same as not getting an answer. < s >
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>>>>Welcome in the thread. Hope you read more of it before commenting any further. :(