>"Freedom of speech" doesn't mean freedom of insulting any who you want. It's not only a YT and Turkey matter, it happened between US and YT too. I don't agree with Turkısh court decision, it was insane. Youtube should not let such content in the first place.

Yes, I agree that there should be some self-censorship and good taste in the media, official and Web 2.0 forums alike. The real difficult question in democracies is: "Where do you draw the line and how do you define it?" If your laws are vague, such as the "anti-Turkishness" laws, they give individual judges a lot of wiggle room to rule based on their own individual values, likes and dislikes. But how can you cover every possible insulting action? That sure would make for one big tome of a lawbook. So, people in a civilized society are expected to be, well, civilized, and know what is appropriate and what isn't. And when they aren't civilized, you can either give them a pretty wide grey area or DMZ to mess around in, or you can snap the whip at the slightest sign of misbehavior.

This gets more and more difficult as the Internet becomes omnipresent. Look at the Chinese government -- they tried to prosecute anyone who dared to critize the state or the rulers in Internet blogs, forums, etc. The Chinese Internet users quickly figured out a perfect way to circumvent this: Sarcasm. People in Chinese Internet cafes have now started parroting state propaganda, saying things like "Our brave and patriotic coal miners are tirelessly extatic working deep underground for the betterment of our homeland, regardless of the often toxic and very dangerous conditions in the mines. These People's Heroes are prepared to willingly give their lives for the betterment of our great motherland!" Everyone pretty much knows this is extreme sarcasm, but the officials can't do anything about it -- if they start throwing these people in jail, they might as well jail the entire ruling class that parrots the party line along with the sarcastic Internet SOB's.

***

Not that this has ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to do with ".NET frameworks revisited", and hence I am personally done with this little subthread here... Call it a "Good Friday Digression".

Pertti

>Cetin
>
>>Cetin,
>>
>>I'm not trying to pull you into a "pointless long discussion". Somebody asked about YouTube, you mentioned something about criminals, I wanted to express my point of view about YouTube, just like you expressed yours.
>>
>>YouTube is not blocked any more, but it WAS until it pulled certain videos off their site.
>>
>>To me the Youtube vs. Turkey case is simply a suppression of free speech (not that I personally care for 90% of the silly and even insulting stuff on YouTube, but, then again, this is no Clockwork Orange, I don't HAVE to watch them).
>>
>>To me the real criminals are the ones who kill (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6279241.stm) or jail (http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,,1668796,00.html) people who dare to speak against the current political system, not some sophmoric Greeks with a bad joke of a video or the streaming video site that gives them the stage.
>>
>>Don't get me wrong, I love Turkey and the Turkish people and the rich culture, and I think Ataturk did a lot of good by separating religion and the state. I just don't care for the heavyhanded ways of the current administration over there. That's all. (And in case you wondered, I'm not of Armenian or Kurdish descent)
>>
>>Pertti
>>
>>>Pertti,
>>>It is just one of them. That was closed. Some were not.
>>>Please do not try draw me into pointless and long discussions. It's not just about mindset, it's about facts.
>>>Youtube is not blocked, it is just another misinformation as like many others.
>>>Cetin
>>>
>>>>Cetin:
>>>>
>>>>I assume you are talking about the Ataturk -video and its anti-Turkishness aspects. YouTube pulled it out as soon as they got complaints from Turkey, but the last I heard Turkey blocked YouTube anyway. Just like they don't look kindly at people writing about Armenians or other historical stuff that may or may not have happened, officially.
>>>>
>>>>Different country, different mindset. Wouldn't fly over here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Pertti
>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks, Cetin - I started watching the video on their site last night but got interrupted and will got back to it today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>BTW - what's your issue with YouTube? Which criminals in particular ? ( I've not watched too much on the site but seemed more "Another site helping people with nothing better to do " < g > )
>>>>>
>>>>>Well Charles,
>>>>>Youtube started to publish some video edits that contain direct insult to our country. They do not seem to care what is published just publish anything there. Probably soon that site would also be the portal for terrorists to exchange their plans.
>>>>>Cetin