I agree with you Thomas, I was focusing merely on VFP because of what has been posted here about Mom&Pops. Any startup or small business usually tries to get by on the cheap. So software written in a number of free languages or languages like VFP which don't require object oriented, class based approach to work are much easier to learn. Novices can string together tons of code line by line and make it work. Might not be efficient, but it works. Much harder to do this in a strong typed language.

I've seen code for some commercial products in fox that would curl the hair on your chest. At one client, they had fp22.5 code in a vfp 7.0 app and had never bothered to rewrite it. When you initiated that module, you got the old time horrible looking screens. You probably coudn't do that in any other product today.


>>>Absolute hogwash! He already said he has no knowledge of VB, but it doesn't stop him from talking about it. He works for a non-profit, so he thinks he is able to qualify VFP as a development tool for non-profits too. I have friends in the non-profit industry. Most use Access.
>>
>>Doesn't stop Walter, et.al. either. Most mom and pop's use VFP stuff:
>>1. Because most VFP programmer's work cheap
>>2. Because it doesn't matter how much spaghetti code is written
>>3. Because anybody can do it.
>
>Let's focus a bit on 3 - start up companies need fast dev cycle. Why is so much written by startups in Python (Google, YouTube) or other (PHP) scripting language ? The garage sitting teenager/twen probably won't use vfp (he has never heard of it, but it might fit his task) but either python, javascript, php, ruby or a similar tool with similar benefits and even more/identical negative side effects. Probably NOT java or C#, and almost certainly not with UML and Rational Rose. Code reviews ? Not in that scenario.
>>
>>If your code is put to rigorous coding standards and review, most VFP code wouldn't hold up, with the exception of a number of good 3rd party tools. I have had to fix a few VFP code nightmares created by some BIG consulting firms who specialize in VFP.
>
>That is mostly a function of developer quality and partly of the frequency of such audits. I know people writing sucky code in any language - and get paid for it!
>
>>VFP lets you make poor programming choices and then doesn't penalize you for it.
>Such a penalty will come later - agreed - but:
>a) later there might be enough budget to fix the issues
>b) there are also cases of overengineered projects never being finished.
>
>And the budget is much tighter in bootstrap scenarios. I am not saying mom/pop or startup scenarios (even involving some nontrivial data manipulation) are only possible in vfp/impossible in java/.Net. The business needs make fast turn around important, and things like clean separation, robustness, minimal no. of errors, sound testing coverage are less important if you don't have to pay 5 testers and 5-15 support people for each project.
>
>Things like static typing *are* getting more beneficial/important as the project size grows - but while the pay on the corporate side is definately better, there is often more fun working in/with startups. And while I am not hurting financially, "Filthy Rich" seems to happen more often from startups<g>.
>
>regards
>
>thomas