>Thank you (and Tamar) for pushing them on new features. Some of the "gurus" are more M$ lap dogs than others. In any event, it is partly human nature. You get on the MVP list or whereever and you get the inside information before others and that provides a competitive advantage and not many people are anxious to lose that. So pushing for new features and pointing out bugs are safe since you can't be faulted for having a wish list and bugs are just bugs - they exist or they don't, nothing that can be denied. But what bothers me is the hesitancy on the part of the gurus to push *hard* on M$ to improve VFP and not kill it. Real criticism. I don't see much of that from too many of the gurus, though it varies, of course. Over the years, there's just been a tendancy to shout about all the new features and ignore the fact that they were purposefully letting the ship sink. It's kind of like in the media, where they beat up the beta of the new OS (when it's safe to do so), but when it
>ships, the criticism drops off drastically because they are beholden to M$ for so much advertising. The level of frustration in this community has been high and I don't think the "gurus" communicated strongly enough with M$. Sorry. Not saying you haven't done some good things or helped people out, including me.

Just as Cathy said in her response, you are way off the mark. Many, if not all, the people present in those meetings (at least the ones I was present at), were criticizing Microsoft's decisions on many issues. We, as MVPs were never 'defenders' of Microsoft ore "lap dogs" as you put it. I take offense to that comment. We were, and are, members of the community. I have been doing Fox since the Foxbase and Compuserve days. I come from the VFP community and am proud to be a part of it. Just because Micorsoft recognized a volunteer that helps the community and gives that individual an MVP Award for one year does not mean that individual becomes a Microsoft shill. Before Microsoft in those meetings, we are always defenders (and representatives if you will) of the community.

We always did the criticism that was warranted in front of the Fox Team. In meetings and sometimes in private to individual members. Just as Cathy said, I remember more than once talking to Ken or YAG or any other member and telling them the way we saw things in the community. Of course, as also Kathy said, I do not have access or contact to MS upper management (and don't think any of us does). I did get to the microphone once, in front of 1200 MVPs in the general meeting once, some years ago, and asked a question about VFP to a big honcho. The question was answered politely but evading it as you can imagine. What do you want one of us to do? Call BillG or walk into his office with demands? We always did the outmost to get our voices heard.