You are speaking as a logical and reasonable man. That is exactly the kind of thinking that has no place in the Arab world <s> No lesson was learned in 1967 except by the Israelis who learned that survival required being able to defeat every one of its neighbors militarily at any time. 1973 proved the Arabs learned nothing.

Paranoia is an irrational fear of enemies. Israel's enemies are very real.

I completely agree that any rational society would realize Israel is there to stay, would have worked out a deal a long time ago for a Palestinian state etc. Arafat was a disaster for the Palestinians but Habash or any of a string of others would have been even worse. All the intelligent, moderate Palestinian leaders were frightened into silence decades ago. The current civil war in the Gaza strip shows a society that has collapsed and is eating itself.

I really wish you were right. But I suggest reading Bernard Lewis's What Went Wrong I'm afraid the leadership and some patterns of thinking have doomed Arab society for a long time to come.

I expected more of the Persians. But the Shah ranks right up there with King Farouk as being the kind of leader that makes revolution look really good. My time in Iran even made me nervous about Savak and we were supposed to be on the same side. But I'm not fond of theocracies either and while I find a certain amount to admire in Iran and great deal to admire in Iranians, I think the current leadership is leading it in the wrong direction. I really hope the Iranian people take matters into their own hands. Iran needs an Ataturk - but then so does the Arab world and there are never enough Ataturks to go around.


>>>This is year 2007.
>>>
>>>Genocide happened over 60 years ago, and was done by completely different animal and in completely different world, time and mindframe all together.
>>>
>>>In all his crazyness, Hitler believed that it was ok to attack 'inferior races', bomb their countries, jail/extinct people in gettoes/camps and all that. Hitler also bombed Belgrade in (his mind) 'Preemptive strike' back in 1941, so how / under what excuse this can be ok today ?
>>>
>>>Does today's Iran ressembles Nazy Germany of 1937 to you in any way ?
>>
>>No, but the noises coming out of Iran today are the same ones coming out of Egypt in 1967 when Nassar was getting everyone on board to push the Jews into the sea. The agenda was explicitly kill them all. King Faisel was clear on that as well and the entire Arab world thought that was a great idea.
>
>That is way to parranoid.
>I think that all of them learned lesson back in 1967, and would never jump such train again. Israel is where it is and will stay there. Arabs will hate/badmouth them for eternity, and no LandBack4Peace will ever change that.
>Nonetheless, they hv to find the way to coexist in the neighbourhood.
>
>As I said this is year 2007, Israelis and Arabs got to move on.
>I think that US did Israel very bad 'favour' by going on Afganistan/Iraq and Israel on the other hand just might decide to shot themself in foot (again)
>by doing unilateral strike on Iran.
>
>That would only ensure that what has been going on for last 40 years will
>be going on for another 140 years, and that is whole nation being army at constant perpetual fear and war with neighbours. If if they want to live this way forever fine, but question is how long whole neighborhood will agree to suffer because of that.
>
>Now that Arafat is dead, and everybody in the region is fedup with the situation in Iraq - Iran could be as a matter of fact, actual key to achieve any sort of lasting peace in the region. They are only one who can talk to
>all Palestinian fractions , Hizbullah and meny others 'players' there whom you don't wanna talk/deal by yourselves. Smacking someone (Iran) right across the face can hardly ever make any relationship get better.
>
>Iran have to be taken seriosely (nuclear research) but also with some due respect. Respect is the keyword here, you know how things works with people of middleeast.
>There are certain lines that should not be crossed EVER, if you ever want to have peace here..
>
>So, Peace4Change :)
>
>>
>>The Holocaust was over 60 years ago. Masada was almost 2000 years ago. But every Israeli soldier is taken to Masada to be sworn in. History has a way of living a long time. I was in Jerusalem shortly after the 67 war. A senior IDF officer who had been in the Warsaw Ghetto as a teenager had been in the wave that was the first to break through to The Wall. He showed me the number tattooed on his arm. He told me "The next time they come looking for us, they know where to find us." I've known a lot of hard men. I had never met anyone who impressed me more as being completely serious.
>>
>>Yes, they take this very seriously. As I said, remember Osirak.
>>
>>This is simply the reality of the Middle East. The Yom Kippur war was very traumatic in 73. In a nuclear world leaving yourself vulnerable to surprise attacks cannot be an option. You are talking about "Is there an excuse ..." etc. I'm just saying people look at the world according to their own national/tribal experience.
>>
>>Golda Meier said "Israel will not commit suicide so that the world will think well of her"
>>
>>The problem with the Arab and Persion culture which you correctly identified as being fond of bragging and talking trash is that you may find someone takes you seriously. Saddam was moving in that direction. Ahmadinejad is definitely pushing it.
>>
>>I don't think it will come to that but I think efforts to get Iran to see things differently are very much influenced by the US and many European countries as seeing Israel's position as I have described.