Fun fact : Just learned today that when Mark Rich was having his "problems" causing him to go into exile his lawyer was ( wait for it ..... ) Scooter Libby !!

It's like and Appalachian Wedding/Family Reunion <bg>


>What surprises me about it all is that prior to this, Bush pardoned 7 people who had very minor offenses (all of whom had served their full time in jail) and refused well over 2000 pardons requested by others. Now this.
>
>I agree that Clinton's pardon of Rich was a travesty, but since Clinton pardoned just about every other criminal in the U.S. prison population, it was, at the very least, consistent.
>
>>We are in accord on Mr. Rich. But I do not hear the outrage over Clinton selling him a pardon. Selling the fruits of public office for financial gain strikes me as rather criminal, no?
>>
>>As to Libby's crime, he was not convicted of "outing" Pflame, he was convicted of offenses regarding his testimony - that's not treason. I don't have a problem whatever the court decides on it or whatever the President wants to regarding his right to pardon.
>>
>>But, if one wanted to talk treason, surely as serious a crime as you can imagine, I would think the same people outraged at Libby would want to prosecute Armatige - or for that matter Novak.
>>
>>And then there is the matter of Osama's satellite phone, the public's right to know ... you see where I'm going with this? I believe strongly in prosecution for treason. I do not believe in using the charge of treason to selectively pick off your political opponents.
>>
>>If the argument is the misuse of Presidential pardon - fine. Lets have that debate and expose every instance - including those that were not ideological but flat out exchanges of cash for justice.
>>
>>If the issue is treason, then let us zealously prosecute everyone who leaks classified information. I would begin with those who disclosed information about surveillance methods - especially the person who revealed we were tapping Bin Laden's sat phone. That should be worth 20 years and any President who pardons him should be impeached.
>>
>>( BTW no one has responded to my reference to Phillip Agee. Does anyone know who that is - or what people like Chuck Schummer thought of him? )
>>
>>>That guy owes $48 million in taxes, was charged with 51 counts of tax fraud and with running illegal oil deals with Iran during the hostage crisis. Plus his wife basicly bought his pardon. This guy shouldn't of got one either - but this other twit outted a CIA operative - which sounds an awful lot like treason to me - and gets only 30 months then ends up walking away from that too.
>>>
>>>>Okay, you are opposed to Presidential pardons. You are outraged by Bush's pardon of Libby. That follows logically. How did you feel about the Presidential pardon of fugitive Mark Rich?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Not sure how you got that outta my posting, so let ME be clear:
>>>>>
>>>>>Everyone who is sentenced to jail time should be behind bars, not
>>>>>set free by the president.
>>>>>
>>>>>I never mentioned lying under oath.
>>>>>
>>>>>You mention "respect for the judicial system" - Bush & Cheney have
>>>>>both in recent times said the laws don't apply to them.
>>>>>
>>>>>And, this was not a political issue until Bush made it so.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Just to be clear - everyone who lies under oath should be behind bars?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>( I said, I don't care Libby goes to jail or not - I just think the "respect for the judicial system" argument in the mouths of many of its strongest advocates is political hypocracy )
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The point of all this isn't whether jail is appropriate. That's for the
>>>>>>>judge to decide.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The point of all this is Bush intervened where he shouldn't have. Libby
>>>>>>>was tried by a jury of his peers and found guilty. He should be behind
>>>>>>>bars.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>So send Richard Armatige to jail. I just don't think jail is the right place for any of this. Take away his membership at the Yale club or the Naragansett Yacht club or make him fly coach for the rest of his life. Remember the people who lept to Bill Clinton's defense when he lied under oath? This is all political. The party in power "holds hearings". Righteous indignation reigns. I didn't want to see Weeb Hubbell go to jail. i just don't care about those kinds of crimes to the extent of jailing people for them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I wouldn't even have a problem with disbarring somebody for that kind of stuff. More appropriate.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>If Scooter Libby deserves 30 months in prison, Sandy Berger should be in Pelican Bay. <s>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>That is not becoming to you. Keep politics out of this for a minute. What kind of moral value do we have when elected leaders have total disregard for the law. You may not like the conviction or personally think it was excessive. Whatever it was it was done by a judge/jury. The Appeals Court rejected his plea.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Now I hear the whining on the radio: it was excessive. Think of the suffering of his wife and children. If he tought about their suffering he would not have lied under oath.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>OTOH, did anybody really believed he would serve a day in jail? He was te fall guy. He was told: "take this fall for the group and we'll take care of you". And they did.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>In the meantime he gets a card out of jail for the coverup and nobody got convicted for the crime.
>>>>>>>>>I would think you of all people here would be especially peeved about the seriousness of the crime and how this bunch in power did not care about what they did.