>>>...
>>>>>So... let's say Canada has the right to colonize the US for the same reason :).
>>>>
>>>><s> No, societies are only colonized by more dynamic cultures. I think we're safe <g>
>>>
>>>Interesting that of all the nations/cultures that have achieved empire, America is the only one that hasn't yet ceded it back to the natives. I've not yet seen a US flag going down and being replaced by a Sioux, Cheyenne, Arapaho, Black Feet, Algonquin, Navahoe, Apache, Pince Nez, .... flag or totem.
>>>
>>>Not having a pop at you, Charles but, the Opium Trade mayn't have been Britain's finest hour but ... Wounded Knee - Nuff said. I know Dragan is criticising colonists in general, and maybe rightly so, but evrywhere there are "first stones" to be cast.
>>>
>>>Just an observation.
>>
>>Actually, killing the Indians started before 1776 <s> And as I said in the discussion of Rhodesia, Americans can't very well be overly critical about killing native populations to take natural resources.
>>
>>But re the Opium Wars : it wasn't the most sterling use of British imperial power from a moral point of view, but made a whole lot of sense from the 'sterling' point of view. The Qing were definitely not an enlightened regime with the best interests of its own people at heart but there isn't much doubt the opium trade was about as blatant an exercise of flexing military muscle in pursuit of economic gain as could be imagined.
>
>You ain't whistling "Dixie"!
>
>>That said, it was, by 19th century standards ( and everything that had come before ) pretty much within the rules of the game and did yield Hong Kong and the opening of the Chinese market through the Unequal Treaties.
>>
>>I don't think taking Hong Kong was as much of a bad thing as giving it back <s> but in the long run, Hong Kong may be the poison pill for Mao's madness.
>
>A commonly held belief is that we only had HK till 1997 when we had to give it back. Actually it was ceded to GB "in perpetuity". It was the "New Territories" that were leased till 1997. However in returning the NT to the PRC it was realised that HK couldn't really thrive without them. This is because Hong Kong's new airport, shipping ports, reservoirs and other vital installations were (and are) all in the New Territories. Had only the New Territories been returned to China, it would also have been difficult to accommodate those New Territories residents moving to the Kowloon Peninsula and Hong Kong Island, never mind feed and water the island.
>
>I visited there in c. 1995 btw - a fantastic place - but one could see the encroachment and the inevitability of PRC even then.
>
>...

Yeah, i know there wasn't much choice - PRC could have shut off the water at any point.

One of my scariest memories is the first time I flew into the old Kai Tak airport there ( late 60s ) All your could see out the window next to the plane was water at the moment of touchdown. Weirdly close to buildings and mountains on the approach as well. Actually scarier than landing in the mountains in Laos in a Pilates Porter crosswind at night by torchlight.