>>We have to add the Spanish American war to the list! :) Boy that is a long list.
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>But of course that is only to say it is human history. I think the history of any nation would have a least at least that long. <s> Humans is funny folks.

I remember an animation from the 1940’s in which a character says: “Humans is the craziest peoples”! How true. :)


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>>>>In this case one view of history is shaped by direct personal experience and the other by media and written words. There are not even that many vets with the experience and knowledge of that war (or even the area in general) as Charles. He knows more about the real war and the lives it affected than he could ever get permission to write about.
>>>>
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>>>Thanks Tracy for your kind over-estimation of my knowledge of that period. <g> I did get a few peeks at some key places at some key times and I was privledged to know some amazing people who perhaps could and did make a difference if given half a chance. I was also very young and immature and ignorant of a lot of the context of what was going on and had agendas of my own and a severe adrenaline addiction - like many of my collegues and probably like many of the people who would have killed us had the opportunity presented. And I knew a lot of people we left behind.
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>>>First hand observation of a small piece of the elephant is fine for anecdotes and to lend color to what is otherwise 'history', but I think I learned a lot more from having studied the region and its politics for the thirty years since. Some of what I saw and experienced I didn't begin to understand until 20 years later. The most interesting experience is finding out through subsequent reading who some of the people I worked with and met were and what they were really doing <s>
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>>>That said, while many of the people promoting the policy were extremely well meaning, the ignorance of the area by US policy makers in Washington was epic. A wise policy in 1954 could have had us selling CocaCola in Hanoi by JFK's second term. And it would not have involved half a million US troops and the near distruction of American society.
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>>>And the swing of the pendulum in 1976 may have been as tragic as the war itself.
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>>>My main problem with Mike's premise is his contention the war was more strongly supported than the Iraq war and that it did not irritate much of the rest of the world to the current level. However well meaning, or however much it represented a lot of us at both oru best and worst, the policy that ran it was a blunder on so mahy levels, compared to which what is going on in the mismanaged Iraqi occupation is the Marshall Plan.
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>>>And as to Iraq being the stupidist episode in our history ... well, that leaves out a lot of stuff. <s>
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>>>Of course historical comparisons are by their nature easily invidious. To people getting blown up in Iraq, Mike's right. To a multiple millions of Vietnamese, Laos, Cambodians and Americans, he's not.
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>>>But that period is 'history' now. It occurs to me that when I sat at the dinner table in high school listening to my dad talk about being a Marine 'Somewhere in the South Pacific' he was talking about a period that had only ended 20 years before, and when I first remember hearing the stories it hadn't been 10 years.
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>>>Most of the troops in Iraq right now weren't born when we left Vietnam/Laos. That period is further in the past than D Day was when I was up country.
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>>>>>We have different views of American history. Viet Nam was worse in terms of casualties but it wasn't this completely unnecessary and dumb.
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>>>>>No, I didn't get an email from you. Please re-send.
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>>>>>>>The Iraqi invasion has been the stupidest episode in our history. Viet Nam was nothing compared to this. At least then we thought it was a good cause and we didn't irritate the entire world in the process.
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>>>>>>I can only conclude you we too young to understand what was happening from 1961-1975.
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>>>>>>Just for openers, 58,000 Americans died in Vietnam and whole lot more were wounded - physically and psychologically. More bombs were dropped on Laos than were dropped in Europe in WWII. Laos had 13 miles of paved roads.
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>>>>>>A conscript army and troop levels of over half a million, rules of engagement that were dunderheaded at best, and host country allies that were certainly no better than what we have in Iraq in a country with no strategic resources that affected our national security ...
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>>>>>>As to thinking it was a good cause and not irritating the entire world in the process ... well, I guess you weren't a history major or reading a lot of newspapers in the 60s. There were those who weren't 100% supportive of the idea <s>
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>>>>>>As to the stupidest episode in our history ... man, you *really* weren't a history major <g>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>( did you get my email - I didn't know if the address was right ? )