Grady, I think there are some issues with your summarization.

While your assertion that Muslims warred their way into/across Europe may have some basis in fact, how do you reconcile how Christianity was spread across the Americas, Africa, Asia and the South Pacific?
Also, wasn't war more common back then, with the unfortunate outcome that the Christians simply didn't win?

Your origin of Islam (The Koran in particular, I presume) is a curious one. But how does that (let Muslims) rationalize terrorism? My understanding is that The Koran is NOT the source for the treatment of women in Islamic society, is NOT the 'source' of "Sharia Law", is NOT the source of '72 virgins will greet the martyr in heaven', etc. Yes, fundamentalists do preach/practise these ideas (different parts by different groups) but we also see very odd practises in other religions too, including Christianity. Just have a look at the Christian Fundamentalists in the U.S. (some of them i Canada too).

As for "How soon we forget" (subtitled 'the U.S. a threat to world peace'...
Yes, OsamaB was their friend when the Soviets were in Afghanistan. Now Iran is earmarkd for war because they are (said to be) supplying munitions to Iraqi insurgents.
Yes, Iraq was a very important friend of the U.S. when Iraq was warring with Iran. It's hard for me to agree that the U.S. was "at peace" when their 2 African embassies were bombed. I just seem to feel that there were U.S. troops stationed and active acros the world during that period.
The U.S. had the full support of the U.N. and the world when it offered Afghanistan a way out of war and it was rejected. The same is not true about Iraq, which clearly was a fight for OIL and nothing more.
There has been NOTHING "systematic" about President Bush's 'strategy to eradicate terrorism'. And Condaleeza Rice has been a dismal failure in every single responsibility she has been delegated. She is inept but her boss likes her, so she gets to keep her job.

About the U.S. reasons for invading Iraq...
Everything was BULL right from the start and the leaders knew it full well! It was about OIL. How come you don't get that yet?????
We've been told how VP Cheney basically lived at the CIA (and other intelligence agencies) to get the stories he needed. We've been told that the nom-de-expat who provided key information was "curveball". That was for a reason you know!

About inflitration by Muslims, for a later take-over...
Have you asked yourself why there have been NO 'suicide bombers' in the U.S. or many other European countries?? They're stil waiting? Only the UK (of Europe) has had suicide bomb attempts and deeds and those have been few and mostly botched.

I don't think you're seeing this issue with clear sight, Grady.

Jim



>>SNIP
>>>
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>>>John said it more rudely than I would have but he has a point. Like it or not, an awful lot of terrible things have been done in the name of Islam. You probably would have to go back to the crusades (which I do not in any way defend) to find a parallel. Yes, I know a lot of Muslims are not terrorists or fanatics. But a lot of them are, too. They believe they have the only right answer and the duty to impose it on others at the end of a sword. If you said the U.S. is a threat to world peace I wouldn't disagree with you. But we aren't nearly as big a threat as Islamic fundamentalists.
>>
>>Didn't read Metin's repy before I set out typing...
>>
>>"But a lot of them are, too." is a very parochial view, don't you think?
>>Yes, those Muslims that are terrorists are after 'us' and our (despised by their terrorist leaders) way of life. But there are a whole lot more terrorists out there, not even Muslim, who are after other things and are far distant from the U.S. and have no desire to 'bother' Americans (or Europeans or Canadians or ???).
>>
>>Frankly, specifically under the current administration (and possibly kept as the model by the next) the U.S. is a far bigger threat to the world that OsamaB and his band of thugs! And the re-election of President Bush sure stymied the (rest of) the world.
>>The Muslim Fundamentalists have *NO* chance whatsoever of taking over the governments of any of the western countries they so despise. Meanwhile it's a very straightforward job for the U.S. military to do so, wherever they are told to go and do so.
>>And those countries exporting oil or having known oil reserves, ought to be most worried. The U.S. approach to "global warming" not only adds to this perception but could also be construed as semi-terroristic by some.
>
>I have a few comments
>
>Regarding the Crusades:
>Metin conveniently forgets that the muslims drew their swords and murdered their way across north africa a few centuries ago. Then, the muslims crossed to Spain and killed their way into that country. If that isn't a crusade then what is? Certainly there was a campaign to retake Jerusalem in about 700AD by the Crusaders. They were responding to the taking of Jerusalem from the Isrealis. Certainly Metin will comment on this but a quick trip to any library will prove the general truth of what I am saying.
>
>Regarding islam:
>About 600AD Mohammed was in Jerusalem. I suspect he heard a mix of Christian and Jewish beliefs and was impressed by it. With a bit of each and making up the rest as he travelled, he moved east into the Arab lands where he spread some rather unusual ideas with what he remembered from his trip west. (Just my opinion)
>
>
>Regarding the US being a threat to world peace:
>How soon we forget. The US supplied the mujahadeen with stinger missles to shoot down the invading soviet military's aircraft. Because of that US help, the Soviets retreated. The USA was at peace and their African embassies were bombed by muslim terrorists. The US was going try to extract American Students from Lebanon when a muslim terrorist drove a truck bomb into the Marines barracks and killed about 240. The Americans at their embassy in Tehran were practising diplomacy when the vile scum and dessert dog, Aetola Komani took power and shortly thereafter disregarded international protocol and took over the American embassy and imprissoned the people inside for 444 days. The Cole was bombed. All of this evil action on the part of the misled muslims. The USA pretty much took little or no action. Then, the world trade center was attacked. Bush was at peace. His policy was to reduce taxes and fix the education system. The USA was attacked and he took the appropriate action. To begin to
>restore peace and prevent other attacks on the USA the President, in a well thought out and systematic manner, began to remove Al Qieda from the face of the earth. I continue to support him in this endevour.
>
>The USA invaded Iraq because of information supplied by ex-patriot Iraqis who wanted Sudaam removed. The information was skewed.
>Before you say anything Metin, the Turkish nation is crossing the border into Iraq to chase, shoot at and bomb the Turkish communists who are pestering the people of your country. You're hardly in a position to say anything considering that action.
>
>I am beginning to fear what seems to be a silent invasion of europe and the west my muslims. These yokels are practising sharia law, which is disgusting to say the least. Recently in Toronto a father performed a 'so called' honor killing on his own daughter. [Honor killing is an oxymoron] Once muslims have a majority I wonder who they will elect to office? When there are enough muslims elected I wonder what they will do with the parliamentary system we hold so dear. Holland is already in trouble and England is going that way too. And there are quite a few muslims in North America too. Now that they know about our way of life (which is why we are so successful and they aren't) maybe they should be re-patriated to change their counties of origin to be more productive and peaceful? What say you?