>I hardly think our economy is on the edge of collapsing. You've got to understand the economics of a Presidential election year.

This is based on what we see here, (Devaluating dollar, stockmarkets lost about 30% within 3 months, financial markets, the rise of the chinese, Oil prices rise to a new height) and has absolutely nothing to do with a presidential election this year as this is not on our agenda. Keep in mind that we look with very different eyes to your internal affairs and see and understand things you don't (E.g. The devaluation of the dollar is hardly noticable to the average american unless they travel a lot).

>Don't believe everyting you read. Compare our unemployment rate with France. The housing market is choking on sub-prime loans because of greed and fraud, not George Bush.

As discussed on this forum before, you cannot compare the unemployment rate of one country to another because they are measured differently (In the US people who are unemployed for a number of years and/or are not actively searching for a job as taken out of the stats). Second, the unemployement rate is not a reliable indication of your economy, esspecially if there is a shortage of educated people.

>I really think those who live in societies that are much smaller and/or with much more managed economies may over-estimate the effect presidents ( and even congress ) have on the US economy.

You might be right in that, however WAR does have a great effect on the economy and the Cheney and Bush clan did choose to go into that direction on false/self invented evidence. Tracy did have a comment about the marshal plan in which the US financially injected into building up the economies in europe. That amount of money now is spend every week to the silly war against terror

>By this logic, Jimmy Carter - who the rest of the world loved because of his flaccid foreign policy - should not have presided over 22% interest rates. Bill Gates contributed more to the prosperity of the 90s than Bill Clinton ( whose major achievement was to leave Alan Greenspan in place. )

Bill clinton is a loved person in large parts of the world. Even be fore the war on terror and his election, GWB certainly was not. The reason? Bill did know what was going on in the world, He was far better at foreign relations than bush is, and overall is a charasmatic person. Bush OTOH has the IQ of a peanut (Though some US americans will reject this, but the rest of the world already has accepted as fact), was a drug and alcohol addict, still makes silly mistakes in speeches, started a war that was founded on false evidence... etc.

The whole story seems to me like we have up here. The left wing spends money like hell and by the time there are new elections, the right wing has to clean up the mess. The difference in the US is that the right wing spends money like hell for no good cause (war on terror) and makes them isolate from the world while the left wing has to clean up the mess.

You have to realise that the US only accounts for 5% of the world population and currently being the world power does bring responsibilities but also threats to that role. You cannot keep thinking you're the centre of the world, because you are not. In south east asia there about 2.5 billion people in two countries (China and India) who's economy is rising like hell and keep giving the credit to the dollar. Because the US government has a relative small grip on the corporate market a lot of jobs are exported to those countries while the US jobs are payed poor (Wallmart model).

The second threat is the european coin: the euro. The US dollar is loosing ground on the financial markets. Not only it has devaluated significantly against the euro since it was introduced, but also there are more euros going arround than dollars. It looks like it is just a matter of time that the oil producing countries will switch to the euro in stead of the dollar (This allmost happened at their last meeting). Once that happens there is no way back for the US as it looses its ability to go in death without devaluating that deeply. There are some good books (at least in dutch) describing what happens if the dollar falls: world wide depression.

It seems all to familiar throughout history. The rise and fall of great powers (Paul Kennedy). The chinese, the greek, the romans, the habsberg, the spanish, the dutch, the brits, the americans. They all went down on mixture of corruption, military and financial overstretch.

>Bankers - and specifically the Fed , currency speculators, junk bond traders, international cartels and just natural market fluctuations have a lot more to do with our economy ( and yours ) than weather or not 'public opinion' in Europe likes our president or not.

>Shell Oil probably has more to do with the Dutch economy ( at least with the finances of the Dutch royal family <s> ) than anything your politicians do.

Nope... we have a far different economy. That is not to say that large corporations like shell do not have any power in our politics (I remember special tax-deals for certain companies), but in the end the economies we are depended upon do determine our economy. Remember we are a small country and we export a lot of goods. We have an excellent financial climat for internationals (though Londons one tends to get better). But all of this is also controlled by the dutch government which shapes the climat and determines what is best for our economy. IOW, how can we make sure that foreigners invest in the dutch economy and how do we increase the export, limit the import and make good deals.

>Ironically, if we had really fought a 'war for oil' we'd be in pretty good shape. Unfortunately, we opted for nation building rather than old fashioned conquest ( where the Iraqis would have been sold to the Saudis by now as labor to replace the Filipinos and Indonesians with Arabic speakers ) and all the oil would be coming our way for $10 a barrel <g> If we were as evil as people think we are we'd be rich <s>

And you think the saudies would do that?? They now are getting $100. Do you really think they would do with a deal for $10? I don't think you understand the market here. It is shortsighted as you'd created more enemies you already have. Even with the military power you are now, you don't stand a chance facing the rest of the world. No military intervention is needed anyways. A tradeblock and a change to the euro for the internation ttrade coin would throw you back into the depression like of the on early last century. If the china express stops, you'll fall on your face.

Walter,