>>>>You don't see the difference in "thou shalt not kill" and "thou shalt not murder"?
>>>
>>>OK, let me try again then - "kill" can apply to animals or to self-defense, killing by accident or without being aware, "murder" is a premeditated, decided upon, action, right?
>>
>>>
>>>If that's the difference, how is capital punishment not murder?
>>
>>With one element you conveniently left out. Justice. A type of person who can rapes, tortures and burys a little girl alive deserves ANY brutal punishment coming his way.
>
>Is imprisonment not a punishment? That's the element I keep mentioning and you're cutting it out for the third time. Or fourth.

Of course it is. It goes without saying. But to me some killers are so heinous and perverted jailing them isn't doing the justice.


>
>Are you saying if we don't kill the guy, he's not punished, or (again) if we don't kill him he's free to go? What? Which is it?

Read above.

>
>Really, Sam, I'm getting a bit deurinated with this stool. Answer this one or I'm walking out on this.

You are impatient.....

>
>>You and I have very different values about life. Here's another annoying question for you, using your view, how is abortion not murder?
>
>In pretty much any definition except the right wing it is not. What is taken out is not a person. What is gained, however, is that people freely decide when do they want to be parents, and when they want to have children, these children are welcome. They aren't an accident, they come when they have someone who wants them. IMO, a much better way to be welcomed into the world than to be born because your mother had no other recourse, and then later, when you grow up, learn that you were poor all your life because your mother had to quit school to keep you alive.

Not a person? Last time I saw a 4 month pre-term, it sure looked like a human to me.
So a human life is at the whim of someone's desire to keep them or not. This is great.
So when does a baby/fetus become a human worth saving?

Abortion is as premediated as you can get. Using your logic, it's murder.

>
>Are you saying you'd rather have a 15-year old girl who was raped have a child? You'd trust her to be able to overcome the trauma of rape, the trauma of being forced to have a birth against her own will and without having a say in the matter, the trauma of having a child at an age when she's completely unprepared for parenthood - or the trauma of separation if child is given for adoption... she's somehow supposed to handle all that? It's only 6 years before the law would trust her to handle a glass of beer.

Sixteen year olds? How about twenty-five year olds (and older)?
Number of abortions due to real health reason is so miniscule compared to the main reason.
Again I know there are some situation where it has to be done.

Life is full of trauma isn't it? And life is full of doing things we don't want to do. So if it's inconvenience for our lives, we just kill it? Trauma either strengths us or it beats us down (then majority of us get over it). When are we going to grow up?

>
>BTW, I actually don't like abortions, and don't recommend them at all. That's the last means of contraception, when everything else fails. Abortion is traumatic, even in countries where they can be done freely, without having to fear a bomb or a mob while in the clinic.

You are the master of bringing up rare occurrence.... there must be a one word to say this.