I do agree with you. However, it is true in our country as well that human rights are for everyone, not just ourselves. We stand up for them when we learn of them. In Germany (from my experience) the attitude is 'we have learned from our mistakes - they will never happen again.' Germany really has learned from her mistakes. Here, we tend to have the attitude that 'it will NEVER happen here period - to even think of it happening here is preposterous.' The public has finally learned that it could and has happened here. Some don't want to believe it. Most want to think it was an isolated incident. The truth is painful, but it must be faced. There is a very fine line between enticing an enemy to confess or tell you everything they know and torture. It has been crossed, and not just once. Only publicity will change that. Only other nations acknowledging it and no longer turning a blind eye to it (regardless of pressures placed on them by this country) will change it. Often, when our politicians get to power, their attitude changes when they start to learn what really is going on. They sometimes get the attitude 'we know what is best - if the public knew everything that happens they would be too scared and we'd have mass hysteria.' People who actually know of the number of terrorist attempts over the years take the same view - I know I did. Ignorance is bliss, but it is not reality.


>Point to you
>
>You, as a person affected in military, has more knowlegde then me in things like that.
>
>Wasn't it you wondering why you was searched on everey flight? Could'nt it be that simply your record show up and there is mistrust to everybody wo was brought to this edge? (Quis custodit custodes?)
>
>Compared with US forced the Bundeswehr is a cirle of grannys. For what we know Coesfeld is standard in some departments of the US forces.
>And I see differneces between Abū Ghurayb and Coesfeld: The US doesn't stop it while we have punished those reponsible.
>In our country human rights are not for citizens only.
>
>Markard. „Der Schoß ist fruchtbar noch, aus dem das kroch...“. (Bert Brecht)
>He has to be fight back. He levels the way to something that should be better in the pot. IOW He is an enemy of freedom.
>
>AFK
>
>Agnes
>
>
>
>>No, you are correct. The Bundeswehr in barracks in Coesfeld, Westphalia just torture their own recruits.
>>
>>Do you recall the words of Professor Morus Markard? (on Monitor):
>>
>>“During the soldiers’ education, the Bundeswehr must eliminate the moral inhibitions that are widespread within our society against killing other people, against humiliating them, and against measures that either resemble torture or that are torture.... [The Bundeswehr] must ensure that these inhibitions are done away with in principle and in such a manner that foreign deployments involving the killing, humiliation and, under certain conditions, the torture of other people becomes possible. "
>>
>>http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/jan2005/germ-j03.shtml
>>
>>
>>>John
>>>Obliviation. Pure obliviation.
>>>
>>>You where not the first inhabitants of the area you live in and if you don't call it genocide I can't help.
>>>
>>>And you use others to do the the dirty jobs too.
>>>
>>>Anyway I talk about now.
>>>Your country is that with that torture and believes on the results of it, not mine. You are the one that poisened indochina.
>>>You have heard about My Lai? Abū Ghurayb? Guantanamo Bay detention camp?
>>>A lot of your people (those calling "beat 'em up") are not far away form supporting genocide.
>>>
>>>Update:
>>>And we have the 4. of April. Maybe somebody mention what happen to opposition in your country. It might not directly linked to the your administration, but the result is the same.
>>>
>>>I do not say there is no upright people in your country, but there are others too.
>>>
>>>I might not be older then you. But I have seen the wind of change in germany, I've seen the lies of both sides and the nazis time is not that far away. We still have ruins in the towns.
>>>
>>>We do not need your "freedom" fights. We do not support your country in this.
>>>We work hardly to not set you people on the same level with your administration. This is all we can do, since we will not cut your freedom. We try not to spit at those liars with the southern accent and the big canadian flag on there backpacks. But we know how lies.
>>>/Update
>>>
>>>You somehow miss how thin the layer of civilization is and how easy the wrong side of men turns upwards. Look for "The third wave".
>>>
>>>Agnes
>>>>Agnes, you are exactly correct in one respect. Freedom can only be measured by the openness of dissent and opposition to the ruling party. Bravo, and good point.
>>>>
>>>>OTOH, we don't kill our opposition. We don't have a White Rose Society but, if we did, I doubt they'd be hung or beheaded.
>>>>
>>>>We also don't occupy for genocidal reasons or destroy a nation and call it the General Government.
>>>>
>>>>Gosh, who could I be thinking of?