Hey Walter,

There just so happens to be a new article published by Henry Kissinger that touches upon our discussion:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/04/the_three_revolutions.html

I think you'll enjoy it.


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>>>Amen... I hope for that too, but I very much doubt that. For the world to progress we seem to need War, empires vs the suppressed and poor. It is a way of evolution whether we like it or not.
>>>Again, I cannot push enough to read the book "The rise and fall of great empires". It really explains how humanity has progressed through struggle and victory. HOw to break that, I don't know. The hunger for power and money is to big to avoid that: it is our nature.
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>>I think you are wrong. The political systems in place in the time of empires are gone. The hunger for power and money is still there but the political systems to allow an entire nation to devote itself to conquest and plunder are gone. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I really think we've grown past that. Sure, there are still countries ruled by a few - such as China or Cuba - but this will also pass.
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>Yeah, you're right. I think I'm way more pessimistic about that. You might have faith in the political system, but I don't. Esspecially when I see the political system of the US today (As we've discussed before) I realize we are far from that. As for China and Cuba, I also have different views on that. Though I don't want to live there, I think many things are blown out of proportion and you have to compare the situation there with many western countries a few hundred years ago. when you do that, you'll see many similarities. Also, we tend to be driven by incidents rather than getting the big picture. It would be very ignorant to say that all US priest are homosexual sex addicts and child molesters because there were a couple of incidents. The same would apply from what you hear from the media about Cuba and China: It is not giving you the big picture.
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>And as with many things, we should not be so arrogant trying to push ourviews onto somebody else, but lets create the conditions to let them develop to the point where things will improve automatically. Change cannot be force from outside, it has to come from within (Like trying to spread democracy). There is a joke going arround that goes like: (The US goverment forces other countries to their will by saying: 'If you don't listen to us, we will bring you democracy'
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>Here is a story that happened somewhere in a country (I forgot which), where children were working long hours in a factory to sow clothes for the western world. A western company that owned the factory and sold their goods, was forced to get rid of the childs working there. The netto result was that the childs were back on the street for begging and prostitution because they needed to to support their families. Is this what we are trying to achieve? Of course not. We need to look beyond our morales and work to a solution that is to the benefit of all parties involved. Nowerdays a lot of project involve childs working in a factory for limited hours a day and receive food, health care and education at the same time. But again that is very difficult to do because large coroporations only (have to) look at the financial results.
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>The best thing we could do is to involve china in the affairs of the rest of the world. Get them a higher living standard (Again about empires), and in time their citizens will demand for more freedom. Even though the internet in china is filtered, there is no turning back to stop exposing the world to the chinese citizens. It is a process that cannot be stopped. The harder we push for sanction the olympics in china the more adverse effect it would/could have.
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>We are seeing the same in Russia. Russia was a communist country in the 80's until gorbatsjov declared 'perestroyka'. It started the process of democracy. However we have to acknowledge that Russia still has quite a way to go before it is on the level of western democracies. Change cannot happen overnight. It needs time. You have to give them time to learn.