>>>>>>Sorry, I'm not buying it. No one is forced to work far from home. No one is forced to work. Hell, in the US the federal government provides numerous incentives not to work, but I digress. We all have choices we have made in the past and more to make in the future and we have to live with those decisions. If one insists on living an hour car ride from their job, that's their choice. No one forced them into it and no one is forcing them to stay. Everyone must weigh their options, make a decision and live with the consequences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Full Disclosure : I choose to live an hour from my work and I choose to drive an SUV.
>>>>>
>>>>>Is that full disclosure? Do you also have oil in your portfolio?
>>>>
>>>>Not oil futures specifically, but I was invested in some oil related items but I stopped out after the last spike. I'm in a wait and see mode right now.
>>>>
>>>>>As far as living far from work, I live in the house I live in because when I came back to Toronto, it was in an area I could afford. I work where I work because the job became available to me after being 'outplaced' from my previous job, and I didn't want to go bankrupt waiting for something close to my house. You make is sound so simple. Just buy a house close to work, or get work close to home. Life is never that simple, but as long as you think Coca Cola and bottled water are as important to our lives as oil and gas, then I guess you might feel it is.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>I never said it was simple or easy. I said we have all made choices which have brought us to our current situation. In addition we can all make choices to live differently. There are always options. Do a google search on frugalists. It's extreme, but it's a choice.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Jake, you're an intelligent guy. You have to know that arguing ad absurdum is not really effective. Realistic choices is what we are all about. Sure I could become a monk somewhere too, but it's not a realistic choice for most of us. You're really making me tired with this complete black and white with no shades of gray nonsense. If that really is your world, then you have my sympathy.
>>
>>Hard times, be they personal, national or global require hard choices. I accept that there are events beyond our control which occasionally lead to great upheavals in our lives and force those decisions. However, I also will require an accurate assessment of the choices which have led one to be put in their current position. Those previous decisions have a direct impact on one's current situation. Too often previous poor choices are compounded and the results are blamed on convenient external boogeymen.
>
>Ok, I don't disagree with any of that. The only thing I'd say is that you seemed, until now, to be saying that if a person compalins about the price of oil, then it was bad choices that led to his/her feeling that the prices are unfair, and so; tough. When somebody quits school in grade 10, that's a bad decision, but I don't see it as a bad decision if someone tries to live withing their means and buys a house where they can afford to. I got lucky. I live in a great neighbourhood, but it's a long haul to work. I drive only a short distance to the commuter train, and ride that back and forth. My decision revolves around the neighbourhood I like living in vs moving closer to work. I choose to stay where I'm happy, but that does not in any way, obviate my right to complain about what I see as unfair gas prices.

Everyone has the right to complain. I just wish the complaints would be directed in the right direction. Raising one's fist to the sky and screaming "damn you oil companies, you sonsofbitches" doesn't accomplish anything and it places blame in the wrong place. Congress holding show hearings where they pontificate in front of the oil company leaders who then run rings of logic around them is a complete waste of time. Although I must admit a perverse pleasure from seeing politicians look truly foolish in the face of industry. These same allegations have been investigated many times and nothing has been found. It's time to fix the problem rather than the blame.

>>>>By the was, I never said coke and bottled water are as important, I cited them in regards to price. I did say that corn was essential to the world and looky here: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jND4r3B-VBZu2Ogg2_yzjYnPIP8gD9180UFG6
>>>>I guess we need to go after the greedy corn producers now...right?
>>>
>>>Come on now, At least 3 times when somebody mentioned oil, you came back with what about cola, once what about bottled water. Your implication was that they are as important as oil.
>>
>>I did a quick search (so I may have missed something) back through the thread and I found that I mentioned bottled water at $6.40/gallon once in response to the question "would you like to pay outrageous prices for food, water...?" There was a little discussion following that. As far as cola, I mentioned Pepsico in one response while speaking of % of return vs. oil companies. I then responded in another thread where you said that I compared cola to oil. I haven't meant to suggest that they are as important I've been pointing out that the price that people are willing to pay is higher.
>
>They were red herrings. Who cares what the price of Pepsi is? If stores want to charge $50,000 for a bottle of pepsi, good on them. Go for it. Let the government tax the hell out of soft drinks, candy bars and tv sets.

In context I believe the points were valid. Using them as a direct comparison to oil, especially in terms of need, would've been invalid. I didn't mean to do that if that was your impression.

>>I have said that corn is important and I also pointed out that it's price just hit an all time high, just as oil has. I am not hearing the same outrage in the US and Canada. I am reading about it around the world where people are starving and rioting over food, but not here.
>
>Yes, I think people should be outraged, not so much over the actual price of corn (which yesterday was $1.99 for 6 cobs in my local supermarket), but more because people are starving all over the world, and we dump corn and wheat rather than give it away because we're afraid it might cause the prices to fall.

I don't think that's occurring right now, most of the cause is shortages due to mother nature, a disastrous policy decision to burn food as fuel and the closing off of grain exports in other countries in order to protect their own food supplies. I know the US has paid farmers not to grow in the past but right now I don't believe that's what's happening.

>>I understand that problems are relative to the individual. However, I have a hard time feeling sympathy for people whose choices have led them to a situation where they are having trouble due to the price of gas. Either suck it up or make different choices. We've been through this before in the 70s and we'll get through it again. Maybe this time we'll learn to make ourselves less dependent. I doubt it, but we can always hope.
>
>But you make it sound like making different choices is a simple as going down to the video store and picking a movie. I'm not sure what makes you think that life decisions are that simple for people, but generally, they aren't.

I have never said the decisions are simple or easy. Where to live, who/if to marry, having kids and how many, where to work; these are major decisions and should be thought through carefully with an accurate assessment of how the pros and cons will affect ones life. It's those decisions which have put us where we are today.

I am quite content with my choices. They have not been perfect and I'm certain that others, given my circumstances, would've gone another route. However, I have insulated myself from certain possibilities which I acknowledge are far beyond my control. One of them is gas prices. I have zero control over the price, but I have mitigated it to a point where I'm comfortable paying the price as compared to the quality of life where I live and the SUVs I choose to drive. When prices come back down, I will loosen my belt on a few things I've tightened up and mitigate the next issue, which will also be blown completely out of proportion by a media which is has a parasitic investment in scaring the hell out of the masses.

>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You're right. They can ride their bike for 4 hours to get to work. Few live within a couple of miles of their employment. Honestly, there is not a good alternative to a vehicle which uses gas and driving in most places unless you live in one of the large metro areas which has mass transportation available. Even here in NC neither Charlotte or Raleigh have a good mass transit system or one at all other than buses which are not every where and run haphazardly. They do not even run everywhere in the city.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>People do not have to buy gas.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>But not buying 10-15 gallons a week and it isn't required. Bottled water is usually an option. Don't need it to drive to work and if necesssary, you can drink tap water. I would argue the lower-income folks are certainly not usually paying 6.00/gallon for bottled water and buying 10 gallons a week.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Exactly what would you hope to accomplish by taking oil off the market and can you justify attempting that effort, given the historical results when this type of measure has been attempted previously. Price caps do not work, in fact, they make matters much worse.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>If this were an industry that was slightly out of control, then minor regulation or jail terms for abusers might work. As this industry has moved into the twilight zone of extreme price gouging of a strategic resource (it isn't just the arabs folks), nationalization of the industry makes a lot more sense.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Specially as a forewarning to the next gaugers - would you like to pay outrageous prices for food, water...?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>People are paying as much as $6.4/gallon for bottled water.