Hi Mike,

>It's a little surreal to read that democracy flowed from the U.S. to Europe instead of the other way around. Our system was modeled largely on European governments and ideas -- the English Bill of Rights, the French Enlightenment, etc. Apparently you are referring to our role in WW II. While no one can shortchange that, it's not like we did it alone. The English and French, among others, were fighting the Germans for two years before we showed up. And it's questionable whether the war would have been won without the Russians. It truly was a group victory and it's a little arrogant for one of the allies to claim they did it alone.

Perhaps I didn't explain it well. Then again, whenever I argue with Walter it tends not to be a deep history or philosophy lesson :-)

Here's the whole poop as I see it: The American democracy was based on what the Founders perceived was correct about civil rights in England and the antithesis of what they saw was wrong. There certainly was a strong influence of French philosophers but, at the time, that was all theory in France and not enacted. The French Revolution, which put some of those theories into practice, came at the end of the American Revolution. And yet still at first opportunity they put a dictator as liege, Napoleon, so the lesson wasn't learned quite yet.

It wasn't WW2 I was referring to, it was the cumulative effect of both wars. WW1 beat the monarchists senseless, WW2 killed them dead. In both cases, the rebuilt countries looked to America as an example of how to govern for the people and by the people. What other example was there?

So I believe that there is a strong case for America being the inspiration for liberal democracy in Europe. And that's why I don't brook criticism on what democracy is from someone who's father professed fealty to Queen Wilhelmina 60 years ago when 200 years ago my ancestors could tell the federal government to go to hell. Feel free to disagree.