imo, the whole problem with your argument Walter is that you are arguing at cross purposes.

The pro-gun advocates argue for the right to possess arms. You are arguing that the ownership of guns is responsible for crime. In the first case the pro-gun advocates are arguing for what they believe is a constitutional right. In your argument you make a claim that gun ownership causes crime. Two very different issues.

Personally I suspect that the ownership of weapons is not the cause of crime at all but rather that the causes are social or socio-economic in nature and that the weapon used to commit crimes is a side-issue. The focus should be on the causes of crime, not the means used to carry it out.



>Jos,
>
>Well, maybe I'm irritated by the whole stupidity of it and people not seeing it. It should be so simple. If 1 kid threathens 10 other kids with a knife, you don't give the 10 other kids a knife to defend themselves, you do something about kids that carries a knife.
>
>This is no difference: There should be absolutely *no reason* why citizens in a western country should carry a gun for self defence. I really can't believe anyone would even argue that up here. And no, there really is no difference between adults and children in this respect.
>
>(*BTW* I can imagine that in your woods things are different, but in a country proclaiming themselves a the most civilised and best country of the world the it truly is unbelievable.)
>
>Where does this end? Lets imagine there is a new invention, a robocob for in your house that when you're being robbed it will shoot down the robber (seen the movie?). You only have to press a button on your watch.
>
>Or wait, lets boobytrap your house when you go to sleep, just ignore the fireman who has to get in when you forgot to blow out that candle while you're asleep. Can't you see accidents and unneedles death happening?
>
>Again, if you extrapolate the gun death accidents of the US situation to the netherlands it will mean more than doubling the number of the total gun death in the netherlands? Why would anyone be so nuts to do so?? Self defence?? C'mon, There are only about 60 gun death, of which suicide and criminal assaults on other criminals are the top rankings. Maybe one or two a year might have been prevented if the victim carried a gun, but on the other side would have a huge increase in accidents and suicide.
>
>I really can't see when looking at those numbers any government who has the choice would allow for a more liberal policy.
>
>I can only say, it is ignorance and stupidity, wishfull thinking and accepting fabricated stats, on the unconditional love for the gun, if any honest citizen concludes otherwise.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>>Questions:
>>>
>>>>Doctors:
>>>>(A) The number of doctors in the U.S. Is 700,000
>>>>(B) Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year are 120,000
>>>>(C) Accidental deaths per physician is .1714
>>>
>>>How many lives were saved because of the intervention of a physician?
>>>How many neccesary surgeries were performed?
>>>
>>>>Statistics are courtesy of the U.S. Dept. Of Health & Human Services
>>>>
>>>>Guns:
>>>>(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. Is 80,000,000 (yes that's 80 million)
>>>>(B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups is 1,500
>>>>(C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.00001875
>>>
>>>How many lives were saved (and how do you check that ?) because of the intervention of a gun?
>>>How many neccesary guns were involved?
>>>How many people were killed by a gun in total?
>>>
>>>1,500 gun death accidents on 300.000 million citizens. That should translate to about 75 gun death accidents in The netherlands a year. This is even more that the total amount of gun deaths in The netherlands (arround 60 a year).
>>>So if we extrapolate this. If we have the same gun policy as in the US. The total gun deaths would more than double. That does not even take into account the increase of unsafety.
>>>
>>>ALSO
>>>
>>>What is the purpose of a gun?
>>>If self defence, unless you're a criminal why do you need to defend yourself?
>>>If you don't have a gun, why would a criminal shoot you, (again unless you're a criminal yourself) ?
>>>What is your chance of self defending yourself with a gun, when a criminal takes you by surprise?
>>>When a criminal is armed and you pull your gun, would it increase or decrease the chance you end up pushing up the daisies ?
>>>If you're only feeling safe out of the with a gun at hand, isn't there something wrong in the first place?
>>>Would it not be wise to do something about the root of feeling unsafe rather than trying to fight the end result?
>>>
>>>I'd like to collect the answers of US american to the questions above to assess the average IQ.
>>>After our study has been done, it will be discussed amongst friends with a beer and laugh about the result
>>>
>>>Thank you in advance,
>>
>>Why the insult to Americans and the reference to their IQ? Have you actually done an in-depth study of gun use and abuse across various countries and various socio-economic demographic groups? Are you so sure about the advantages vs. disadvantages of gun ownership? Are you an authority on this subject or just espousing an opinion?
>>
>>18 teenagers have been stabbed to death in the UK this year. That's about one every 10 days. Plus the 2 French students who were brutally tortured and stabbed to death and finally burned just a few days ago. What is the cause of this violence? Certainly not the accessibility of guns since they have no gun control problem to speak of. Clearly violence is not a weapon per-se problem but a complex social problem.