>>>>>>Hi Jos,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Death by gun is obviously a gun related death (tautology) but the reason there was a crime committed, regardless of the weapon used, has another cause. You say the cause is gun availability. I say the crime has socio-economic causes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I agree with you, but also think that gun availability escalates the crime, so, for example, a robbery is now an homicide/death depending on the outcome <g>
>>>>>
>>>>>You are correct. The availability of a gun can indeed escalate the crime to a more serious one (but does not cause the crime to occur). Without weapon A the criminal would need to use weapon B, which may indeed be less effective.
>>>>
>>>>In fact, though I don't have a cite, ISTR reading that there are a fair number of assaults and murders which result because there's a dispute and someone has a gun available. That is, you have either a non-crime (people yelling at each other) or a minor crime (people having a fight) that becomes a major crime because there's a gun at hand.
>>>>
>>>>Now would these folks have grabbed another available weapon? I imagine the answer is "sometimes, but not always." Guns just make it too easy to hurt others.
>>>>
>>>>Tamar
>>>
>>>Tamar, you do not see me denying your point at all. I am arguing that the availability of guns is not the cause of the levels of crime that we see. Crime will continue to exist whether guns are available or not. The weapons may change but the crime will continue. We need to address the cause of the crime, not the tools used in crime.
>>
>>Essentially, I agree with you, but what is wrong with trying to mitigate the damage until such time as the roots of crime can be attacked and overcome.
>
>
>How? By taking away millions of guns owned by millions of law abiding people?
>I'm not against your idea if it could be done.

Ok, I've said this a couple hundred times, but I guess once more won't hurt. Every criminal was, the day prior to committing the criminal act, a law abiding citizen.

I never said it would be easy. And in fact, I doubt it could be done that way. First there has to be a concerted effort to change the culture into a less gun-totin' mentality. Small steps at first, like maybe decent gun ownership regulations. Before I'm allowed to operate a car, I have to be tested. AFAIK, no such deal on guns (at least not everywhere in the country, or on every kind of gun). Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not aware that there is any sort of standardisation in the rules around gun ownership in the U.S. Pretty much any bozo with a wallet can buy a gun.

>
>I wish we can go back 700 years and start all over again without guns.

It would be nice. I doubt the wild west mentality can be changed without a lot of hard work, pain and ridicule.