>>>>>Not that different from when I was a kid. We went off on our own (usually with a bunch of friends), but when mom called, we came home. I still say things are different today than in my idyllic youth.
>>>>
>>>>The question is why is it different now. Are analogous neighborhoods really that much more dangerous, or are parents just overprotective? I think it's much more the latter than the former.
>>>>
>>>>Tamar
>>>
>>>I disagree. Gang membership is way up over when I was a kid. The types of gangs are far more viscious. Hard drugs are far more available. Fights, when I was a kid were fists mostly, and the odd knife. Now they're knives and guns. With the advent of the internet, I honestly believe that kiddie porn is way up too. I don't doubt that stuff all existed when I was a kid, but I do believe it is a far, far more widespread problem now than it was then.
>>
>>But there were dangerous neighborhoods, some with gangs, when we were kids. Places we knew (or should have known) never to go.
>>
>>Compare comparable neighborhoods. I can do that because the place I live now is very much like the place I grew up (which is only 10 minutes away). This neighborhood is safe. There are no gangs. Yeah, there are drugs, I'm sure, but I know for sure there were drugs where I grew up, too. No one in either place is or was selling drugs on the street corners. In neither neighborhood are/were teens walking around with knives and guns.
>>
>>The kids in this neighborhood have much less personal freedom than in the neighborhood where I grew up. What's changed is the parents' perception of danger, not the actual dangers.
>
>Are you absolutely sure that your neighbourhood is not safe because the kids have less personal freedom?

Not sure what you're asking.


>It's hard to talk about 'comparable' neighbourhoods. I look at the neighbourhood where I grew up, and it's very much changed. You have to move farther and farther away from the city centres to find anything these days that you might call 'comparable', and that, to me, is telling.

I'm sure this varies from place to place. I grew up in a neighborhood on the edge of the city of Philadelphia, this is, just inside the city limit. My parents still live there and it still seems pretty safe. I live about two neighborhoods over from them, in a first-ring suburb that was safe when we were growing up and is safe now.

Some neighborhoods in the city that were dangerous when I was a kid (like the area around Temple University) are much safer now. Others were reasonably safe then and are more dangerous now. Times change, people move, businesses come and go, and all of that has an impact.

>>I'm pleased to see that my sister, who lives within walking distance of me, is trying hard to give her kids appropriate personal freedom. Her 12-year-old walked to and from school the last couple of years, and can stop at a friend's house on the way home, as long as he calles. He rides his bike around the neighborhood with his buddies. The 10-year-old is allowed to walk to my house from hers and plays out on the sidewalk (and even in their quiet street) with his friends. That's how it should be.
>
>Sure. The kids in our neighbourhood play basketball, road hockey, etc. and ride their bikes out in front of our houses too, but that is hardly the same as going to the mall and hanging out - which is where this all started.

Well, malls like we have now didn't exist when we were kids. I can remember when the first mall in this area opened. There was already an open-air shopping center of similar size, anchored by a department store, but this one was under one roof. It's tiny by today's standards (and has been converted to a non-mall shopping center).

FWIW, when I was 11, 12, 13 (I don't remember), I was allowed to ride the bus to those shopping centers when I had a reason to do so.

Tamar