>>>>>The kids in this neighborhood have much less personal freedom than in the neighborhood where I grew up. What's changed is the parents' perception of danger, not the actual dangers.
>>>>
>>>>Are you absolutely sure that your neighbourhood is not safe because the kids have less personal freedom?
>>>
>>>Not sure what you're asking.
>>
>>The more closely kids are watched, the less likely they are to go to the 'dark side'. The less likely they are to join gangs, get into fights, shoot each other. Stuff like that there.
>>
>
>
>Okay, now I see what you're getting at. If that were the case, then wouldn't you expect the kids from the neighborhood where I grew up (where lots of kids had lots of personal freedom--the neighborhood leaned pretty far left and actually, still does) to have turned out badly on the whole? That's certainly not the case.

We don't seem to be on the same wavelength here. I keep trying to say that things are different now than when you and I were kids, and you continue to tell me about how nice it was when you were a kid. Ok, I agree. Things were great when I was a kid too. It's not relevant to how things are now.

>
>IAC, no, I actually think responsible parenting means increasing a child's independence and responsibility as he or she grows. The challenge of parenting is figuring out what's appropriate for a given child at a given age. We allowed our younger son to stay home alone overnight younger than we did his older brother because he was better equipped to handle it. He got his learner's permit for driving younger, too.
>
>There's such a thing as too much supervision and control. If the goal is to produce an adult who can make wise choices, you have to start letting kids make choices when they're young. You start with a restricted set of choices when they're very young ("do you want to wear the red shirt or the blue shirt today?"), and you sometimes let them make bad choices, and suffer the consequences. ("It's pretty cold out. I really think you should wear a warmer coat, but it's up to you.")
>
>By doing these things, you help them learn how to make decisions. Obviously, you don't let them make their choices in a vacuum, but make sure they understand your values and expectations (I think my kids could go on at length about the expectations with which they were raise <s>).
>
>Of course, you also have to provide kids with good things to do, and that is one place where strong communities come into play. They tend to have lots of things for kids to do that won't get them in trouble.
>
>A strong community also comes into play by supporting other people's kids. Things like not being afraid to let another parent know when you see their kid doing something wrong, or for that matter, not being afraid to correct someone else's kid when you see something going on.
>
>I could go on, but I'm sure you get the idea.
>
>Tamar

I get the idea absolutely. I think the only thing we may be in disagreement about is, at what point is a kid old enough to be out on his/her own. I tend to think a bit older than you do.