>>>>>>>You just don't get it do you? Murder is an illegal homicide. The STATE cannot murder people, because they give them due process, which includes numerous appeals (some of us say too numerous). I support the government killing people who deserve it, not the innocent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Golly John, ya may be right here after all about me not getting it. So help me regarding this 'deserving/innocent' you know all about... "Deserving", "Innocent" says who? Who tells you, and you believe it to death, that one is deserving/innocent. Who was that again? Says who?
>>>>>
>>>>>Ok, I'll be a little more didactic, just for you.
>>>>>
>>>>>Innocent babies don't deserve to die.
>>>>>Says me, and most Christians.
>>>>
>>>>In spite of Sam, I still want to know. When you use the word 'baby', are you referring to a fully formed human being outside the mother, a one celled creature just newly fertilised, a week of cell growth, a month? At some point, we agree on the concept of killing an innocent baby, but I'm not clear on whether you use the word the way most people understand it, or if you use it in place of 'fetus' to try to shock. I expect that most of us, on hearing/seeing the word 'baby', aren't picturing a few cells swimming around.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>People who premeditatedly murder people, do deserve to die.
>>>>>Says the guvment.
>>>
>>>In regards to Obama's votes, on the issue of whether or not a doctor should be able to kill a baby that has been delivered, I say that is clear. I understand your position is positional. It depends on whether or not the baby has cleared the chute. What is the difference? If you stand on one corner, or another, and you get shot, isn't it still murder?
>>
>>Well, first off, I don't actually demand that the baby has cleared the chute, but I certainly don't believe that a non-sentient collection of a few cells constitute a baby.
>>
>>>I think a baby is a baby from the time it is conceived, and certainly moreso as it ages. People say it's a woman's choice. That's the same argument slaveowners used when dealing with their "property". They could kill them, sell them, abuse them, etc, because they weren't human. Well, I believe they were human, and unborn children are no more "property" than slaves were.
>>
>>I see a huge difference between thinking, feeling human beings and a collection of cells that haven't actually formed into anything recognisable yet. Some things really are property, even if they are a part of us. Do you get your hair cut? Do you clip your nails? Would you have an operation if you developed appendicitis?
>>
>>There is a point at which that collection of unformed cells crosses over the line and becomes a feeling human being, but I cannot accept that that point is at conception. I'm not really qualified to define that crossover point for the rest of humanity. That has to be up to the woman and her physician. For all I know, it may not even be the same for every gestation. Certainly I don't believe that McCain is qualified to set that point for all womanhood. I've never believed that unmitigated ideology is a good way to run a nation.
>
>
>So, if the child is retarded, we kill it.

Between 88% and 93% of the time when detected in the womb.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3377004?dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2267225?dopt=Abstract