>What does all that you said have anything to do with the price of tea in China?

???

>Sorry that US isn't living up to your standards... of .... what are your standards anyway?

A bit more sophisticated society. At least health care and the same opportunity for education for all. A more secular and modern political system. Independed media, and less citizens imprisoned. A society with far less firearms and less violence.

>If Guantama bay and Abu ghraib are you prime example of human right issue with the USA... it's not much.

Ignoring the geneva convention, having the death penalty and the Guantama bay and Abu ghraib combined are serious enough for a country that sees itself as the leading nation in the world. Having critisism on another country to has some irony in it.

Anyways, what human rights violated in china is bothering you most. Just curious as I think many do not have a good grasp on it, but just are taking over the slogans from the media.





>
>
>>>>But this is besides the point. A lot of people have a big mouth about human rights in china, but forget that the US themselves do not present themselves very well as well in this area. Guantama bay, Abu ghrail, Extraordinary Rendition, increased violation of privacy (esspecially when you travell by plane to the US).
>>>
>>>So I guess to you what goes on in communist China is equivalent to what went on in Guantama bay and Abu ghraib.
>>
>>Ok, you've ask for it :)
>>
>>China is not a western country. It has a very different past that is deeply embedded in their culture and government. We should respect that and hope that through the enormous economic developement they are going forward on other areas (culture, environment, freedom of speech, human rights, political, etc). I'm absolutely positive we will see development in this area, but it will take time. Try to think how much of the western world looked like about one or two hundred years ago. Can we expect the rest of the world to develop in the same time at the same rate, and do we really want that?
>>
>>As china will 'mature', it will also have other consequenses that are less favourable to the western world. It will build a stronger military, will polute more, will be a strong economic and politcal power, will take over more and more forreign companies, etc.
>>
>>Do we need to put it on the agenda when talking to china? I think yes. It does not hurt, unless we overdo it.
>>
>>However, if we look at human rights in the USA there is a lot to be desired as well. Should the rest of the western world put this on the agenda as well? And then we are not only talking about human rights of those prisoners taken in the war against terror. The death penalty and the sometimes absurd cases of imprisonment of people (e.g. the three strikes you're out, rule, the people that were sentenced for life for crimes they did before they were 18).
>>
>>And while we are playing this holier than you game. Should we not forbid the trade of goods that were produced by underaged kids in some forreign country, because that is violating human rights? Or would this hurt the economy too much as we have to buy our goods from those countries at a much higher cost? And before you say yes... Take into consideration that if we do that, it would mean all kids will be fired and will have no income to support their families, or keeping themselves alive, or away from child prostitution.
>>
>>So, those things, unlike many people believe are simply not black and white and IMO are more used as a political instrument rather than anything moraly.
>>
>>So to come back to your question: "So I guess to you what goes on in communist China is equivalent to what went on in Guantama bay and Abu ghraib?
>>
>>Now, if you asked me this 8 years ago, I pretty much knew what to expect from china, but would not expect the violation of human rights by the US.