>I have to disagree about Palin doing better than expected (which I agree with) giving her a win. Not vs. Biden, it didn't, at least not according to everything I have seen so far. Well, other than John Harvey ;-)

I must have worded that poorly if that was your understanding of my post. I don't think she won because she did better than expected. I don't think I even wrote that, or at least I hadn't intended to. I wrote she did better than expected, but not that it gave her a win. I think Biden won the debate, but Palin won in presentation. They both 'won' in a sense. She was much more personable and direct in speaking to the public (like Obama was in the McCain/Biden debate).