Curveball was what they called an intelligence source that some in the agency gave too much credence re WMD and dissident support that would be found in Iraq. I think he was pretty much discredited though I don't remember the details.

Haven't read "The Dark Side" but I would suggest that when reading stuff about intelligence organizations and their successes and failures remember the tale of the blindmen and the elephant and remember that reporting failures or successes is also a tactic in the game.


>You and Tracy are correct. The CIA embarrassments were primarily before the time period of Woodward's latest book. "The Dark Side" and my dwindling respect for Bob Woodward colored my remarks.
>
>Refresh my memory about curveball? It vaguely rings a bell but my memory is getting foggy ;-)
>
>
>>I have no reason to be embarrassed by anything I don't do personally {s}
>>
>>I think you're talking about pre-war intelligence - notably Chalabi, curveball etc. The JSOC stuff is DIA, CIA, Special Ops, NSA and those things that don't make the papers and Woodward is talking about its role in the success of the surge. I think that - and, as I said, stuff on the Syrian border and in the Bekaa - is going to be the model for future warfare in the area.
>>
>>
>>
>>>I think you may be embarrassed by the CIA's role in all this. You should be.
>>>
>>>In fairness, the indictments of the CIA in books like "The Dark Side" and others have mostly been of the higher ups.
>>>
>>>>I am just finishing Woodward's The War Within. If you haven't read it yet I recommend it. Fascinating stuff - and portrayals of Col H R Macmaster, Gen Keane and Gen Petreaus remind you that some really exceptional people do choose the military as a career.
>>>>
>>>>Oh and even if you don't have time to read it now, if you pass it in a bookstore just read page 380 about JSOC (Joint Military Assistance Command) - a blandly named incarnation of SOG "responsible for hunting Al Qaeda in Iraq ... using every tool available"
>>>>
>>>>"Derek Harvey, the DIA intelligence expert and adviser to Petraeus, said privately that the operations were so effective they gave him 'orgasms'.
>>>>
>>>>Bush: "JSOC is awesome."
>>>>
>>>>Ten years from now we may know - or the 25 rule may still be in effect - but thanks again to the watchers on the wall.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>ROFL :o)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>One of the strongest features of The Vision of the Annointed is not having to revise any portion of the Vision, its assumptions or its world-view based on outcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Those who Know Better will always Know Better because all the others who Know Better will always agree with them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Anyone who does not share that Vision is - by definition - stupid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And now the rest of the world. Or are you still convinced the surge didn't work?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What's even worse is that after saying it over and over a zillion times I think these two bozos actually belive it themselves.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>After repeating over and over and over that everything is perfect in Irak they probably hope to increase those believing them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Cheney says the surge in Iraq (Pronounced 'i-wreck') is working.