We must be on the same wavelength. I tried both of those tricks last night myself!

I just replaced CntBar() with _screen.formcount and PrmBar() with _screen.forms(i).caption and it works perfectly! All I needed to do was make sure the same record didn't get opened twice and I thought it would be easy. I guess it's a trade off. With _msm_windo and _mwindow it is no work at all to maintain a menu of open windows now. It wrote 50 or more lines of code to do the same thing in VFP 7. But the time I saved on that task, I squandered trying to access a popup that didn't yet exist! Always somethng new to learn with VFP.