>>>>There is a difference between being victimized and self-identifying as a victim. If you are victimized, that is something that happens to you that is the result of a bad act by another. The fault is theirs and you can take steps to minimize the impact of their bad action. It is something that happens to you and should be a motivater to seek justice, redress, revenge, whatever and to prevent vulnerability to such acts in the future as far as possible.
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>>>>To self-identify as a victim is to define yourself and to make it who you are. That is a very different matter. It accomplishes nothing and puts all the power in someone else. Victims are victimized by definition. It is a passive identity.
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>>>>The best advice my father ever gave me was : "Here's the good news and the bad news - it's all on you. And even when it's not, behaving as if it is will get you further, accomplish more and make you happier"
>>>>
>>>>In 61 years I have found that to be very useful advice... and an extremely good recipe for both survival and happiness.
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>>>This is roughly the same I wrote Tracy in this same thread: I understand what you're saying. Nevertheless I'm inclined to believe that the use of the concept of 'self-identifying as a victim' mainly serves an irrational wish to get done with it, to lower involvement. I'm inclined to believe that characterizing someone as 'self-identifying as a victim' is wrong. Instead, a thorough analysis of such a person will probably reveal that his/her skills, knowledge of the real world and opinion about what's right and wrong show fallacies and weak spots that cause this person to get into troublesome situations more often and to be more chronically unhappy than others who have a better set of skills, a more correct knowledge of the world and a more correct opinion about justice.
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>>>Your concept of self-identifying as a victim leads to judgements like "Oh come on, get over it! Grow up."
>>>My concept leads to advices like: "I think you need to work on certain skills. I think your understanding of the real world needs some improvement. I think we should discuss the concept of justice more indepth."
>>>
>>>There's esp. one insight that may be helpful for a victim who wants to solve the problem: A victim cannot be held responsible for what happened, but can be held responsible for what's done with it. This is essentially similar to what you write: The fault is theirs and you can take steps to minimize the impact of their bad action. It is something that happens to you and should be a motivater to seek justice, redress, revenge, whatever and to prevent vulnerability to such acts in the future as far as possible
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>>I agree with everything you say here but need to include that the seeing of oneself as a victim is one of the major "fallacies and weak spots that cause this person to get into troublesome situations more often and to be more chronically unhappy than others who have a better set of skills, a more correct knowledge of the world and a more correct opinion about justice."
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>>I do not tend to say "Grow up, get over it" but I do not hesitate to try to point out to the afflicted person that a gestalt shift is necessary in seeing what parts of life are under their control and the once this is appreciated the outlook can indeed be brighter and more importantly the insight can be very empowering.
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>Agree, but it's not simply a matter of saying "hey, you need a Gestallt Shift!" or "hey, you see it wrong". It often takes many steps before this switch - all of a sudden - happens. It's the "ah, now I see!" that the therapist is searching for in the client's way of thinking.

Very, very true. However, saying "there, there" and telling the person that the other person is a b*%^*#d for treating them so badly isn't going to help them realise that they may need a gestalt shift.

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>For an average client it's as hard to make the Gestallt Shift you expect him to make as it is for you to suddenly believe that the earth is flat.