>>>>>>Basically, a person can either agree or disagree with an opponent, and/or try to explain positions; but brushing aside an opinion by pretense of "links" is not the best discourse.
>>>>>
>>>>>But opinions weren't the issue when I asked for cites. People asserted that there are a significant number of people gaming the welfare system. I acknowledged that such people exist, but asked for some evidence that it's a large enough percentage to warrant distrusting all who are on welfare or changing the system. No one has offered any such evidence, just anecdotes. As you know, the plural of anecdote is not data.
>>>>>
>>>>>Tamar
>>>>
>>>>I just gave you an article about welfare fraud in California.
>>>>it's not the number of people "gaming" that really matters. It's the dollars. Experts estimate about 300 BILLION dollars per year in US are given to those that are "gaming" welfare. 3billion just in California.
>>>
>>>That seems an awfull lot, Have any hard data on that? That would mean approx 8 thousand dollar per year per citizen. I find that a bit hard to believe. What's the definition of "gaming" anyways. I don't remember the US as a place where unemployment fees where very high.
>>
>>Well, Walter that is the estimate of the expert's. I imagine fraud is difficult to keep track. I guess they extrapolate it from the known cases they have. If welfare fraud is not a big problem, how come there's so many agencies dedicated to prevent it.
>>
>>"Gaming" is Tamar's term for people who commit fraud.
>>
>>Just think about this, you quickly believe that nearly a million people died in Iraq because of the war when in reality, experts estimate "only" 150,000. Yes, I know, whatever the number, it is still tragic.... but you don't believe the welfare fraud estimate because...... ?
>
>You have no idea what I believe. I know how things work in world politics.
>
>>For every dollar of the welfare money that is given to a "gamer", somebody who really needs it is going to suffer for it... actually we all suffer for it.
>
>If 10% of the californian population is a gamer that would be arround $80.000 per gamer. Not only the percentage seems too high, but also the $80.000 per year per person. So again where are your number comming from ?

From reading.
See my reply to Tamar. I gave her a link.