>>>>>>I'll bite. Name some European countries that are doing better than America by about any measure.
>>>>>
>>>>>Take your pick of the Scandinavian countries for starters.
>>>>
>>>>They lose on punitive taxation alone.
>>>>
>>>>Norway - Up to 48% individual + 14% payroll + Up to 25% VAT
>>>>Sweden - Up to 59% individual + 32.42% payroll + Up to 25% VAT
>>>>Denmark - Up to 63% individual + 25% VAT
>>>>
>>>>Ancillary Note : The 2008 World Series of Poker champion was from Denmark. He won a $9.1 million for 1st place and pocketed less than a third after Denmark's tax collectors got through with him. In a comical aside, he tried to establish residency in London during the 3 month break in the tournament in order to avoid the outrageous confiscation of his winnings.
>>>>
>>>>If you choose to include Finland - Up to 53% individual + Up to 22% VAT
>>>>If you choose to include Iceland...well they're bankrupt.
>>>
>>>Like a lot of conservatives, you mistake individual economic greed for quality of life.
>>
>>"by about any measure" was the comparison you put forth. I merely cited one.
>>
>>Allow me to clear something up as you seem to have a misconception about me. I do not believe individual economic greed equates to quality of life for everyone. For me personally, having lived as a starving student and as a top-bracket earner I greatly prefer the freedom of the latter but I understand that is not the case for many. I believe everyone should be free to make those life choices for themselves as long as they pay their own way.
>>
>>>No wonder we as a country tolerate social ills that would be intolerable in any other developed country.
>>
>>In a free society, people must be free to fail. We agree that a society has a responsibility to help the helpless. Where we differ is on the definition of "helpless".
>
>We don't even agree on that.

Fair enough. This clears a lot up about our differences.

>One of the things developed countries with at least some elements of socialism (not communism, socialism)

Please do not pretend that I don't understand the difference. Communism is socialism on steroids and while there is a commonality I do not equate the two. Besides, at this point I believe all developed countries have elements of socialism.

>consider a human right is a basic level of health care.

I heartily disagree. Rights must not infringe on another. By elevating health care to the level of a right, you must supplant the freedom of another individual by forcing them to attend to that someone's health. Until the day where we have robot doctors I must disagree with health care's elevation to the level of right.

>Our broken health care system is moving rapidly towards something that is available mainly to the helpless and the well to do. What about everyone in between? What about businesses that are being strangled by health care costs? It's not like we as a society are getting better care for the money. Look at life expectancy, infant mortality, and other health related measures compared to those in other countries. They are part of the "by about any measure" phrase I used.

See my other response to Nicholas. You should be happy...The stealth takeover has already begun.